to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

Most of us seem to agree that being expected to read out loud and take part in class discussions and debates helps to increase confidence.

The OP asks what she can do to help her child. How could this be replicated at home? Drama classes might help but it isn't quite the same as public speaking.

I got a scholarship to a single-sex private school at 11. There was a culture and climate which encouraged excellence, it wasn't seen as "geeky" (not that the word existed in the 60s) to want to do science, or sport, or anything, really.

In class, many lessons involved a lot of debate, discussion, giving feedback etc. We were encouraged to speak with confidence and listen with respect.

We also had a very broad education. In year 7, we did group work looking a daily paper each week and discussing how the different papers covered and analysed the news (and the school library took all the broadsheets!). We were taken to the woods and had to find our way back with a compass and an OS map, we had trips to major art exhibitions and the theatre. In year 9 and the first year of 6th form, teachers ran extracurricular courses on subjects that they were passionate about (I did medical ethics, vernacular architecture and the Mabinogion stories).

We learned not to fear having an unorthodox opinion about anything, because of the culture of respect, and that engenders the courage to think outside the box.

Encourage your kids to work out their own opinions, talk to them about stuff that matters, and listen to what they have to say in a way that validates them.

It worked for me.

Oh, and we didn't learn anything practical: no cooking, needlework, typing, woodwork - I think they expected us all to have such glittering careers that we'd have people to do all that shit for us.

Firstly most private schools have no SEN (or very mild at best). So in my opinion they mostly have good exam results by fraud.

Because SEN children can't get good exam results? You're extremely ignorant.

Our private school has higher than average SEN. Classes are small, teachers know the kids and spot problems quickly and parents can pay to bypass NHS waiting lists so get diagnoses quickly.

I think that people jumping on the poster who said that their kids would not thrive I'm state are maybe looking at it from their own experience/point of view. Not every school/area is the same.

Obviously it depends where you live - there are 2 (secondary schools) near us with serious problems with knife crime, drugs and muggings, and a few of the nastiest examples of runaways to daesh. So not great environments. I have friends who have taught at one and it sounded really hard for her (and she was no shrinking Violet). She was amazed that kids doing A levels just didn't want to be there and would hurl insults at her and do anything to avoid work.

Most local parents are killing themselves not to be on these catchment areas as there are also some decent schools too. That means council house swaps, renting close by, faking/finding religion to get into the really good Catholic or tutoring them to get a scholarship/grammar place. Or moving out of the area.

And my personal opinion about the confidence is that they have less bullying and a culture where it's ok to want to learn and to ask questions and to speak out and question and give your opinion. They also have the opportunity for kids to shine at something - whether it's academia, sports, art, music, horseriding, chess, etc etc.

@arethereanyleftatall I agree, and whilst I am guessing you’re taking the P, it does work if done day in and day out. I guess the point here is that simple things like this just aren’t priorities in many state schools... not always because they don’t care, but because a multitude of obstacles in their way mean the focus is elsewhere, and parents are usually the biggest obstacle... You can’t make my child sit according to where they are in the line, they have to be allowed to sit with their friends... My child is shy don’t make him/her shake hands etc... private schools just do what they have found to work and they are less threatened by parents. So it’s a choice as a parent as to whether you want that or not, and whether you want it reinforced at school as well as at home... or not. Not everyone has that choice financially of course, I would much prefer state schools were allowed to be run by the professionals not parents or successive changing governments!

I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet but this is covered in the Malcom Gladwell book “Outliers” and much of it is practical advice as to what the differences are

In terms of confidence, at my kids high school in the US in Sophomore year (when they are 15/16) the entire school year participates in Model UN. Earlier in the school year they are all paired up by the teachers, one boy and one girl. They are given a country and have to do an enormous amount of research for months. They also have to learn all the rules of the UN procedures, protocol and unique phraseology and language. Also how to offer policy and amendments in the body of the UN. They also have to be on committees and learn how the committee functions.

My dd was allocated Turkey and as well as learning about the history of Turkey had to be able to talk about a huge range of issues currently affecting Turkey such as their energy problems, nuclear ambitions, Syria, ISIS, Europe and all from the point of view of the current extreme government. They practice debating for months.

At the end of the year they spend 3 entire days in Model UN. They can wear suitable clothes culturally current to their country or smart professional clothes. They then debate resolutions for three days and sit on committees. A group of teachers sit at a large table on the podium and work as the chair. Each country has a table with flag and two representatives. It is a huge undertaking. This is all public and parents, students and anyone else can watch. While I was watching I saw lots of students come and spend their whole lunch break and breaks between classes watching.

They have to meet a very high standard and of course they are all speaking and debating and are marked according to participation and knowledge in many categories.

It is like an intense academic boot camp and really increased my dds confidence in her abilities to manage enormous amounts of information, condense it and speak about it in a very correct and formal format.

This is a compulsory activity.

How much is parenting?

I was educated privately and have a real self esteem problem to the extent I have to take a beta blocker to do presentations.

I come across as very confident but really I am not. My parents were shit as building confidence and this is what I am changing in bringing my own kids up

funkyherocat If we lived in the U.K. I would have our 3DC at private school because they have better provision for our SEN DC. I have 2DC with autism. They are high functioning and thrive in small classes. It would be better for them.

Ironically here in America the state schools are better for SEN. My DC are in classes of 7 and 8 plus get lots of additional help for speech etc.

I think confidence is produced when you know you have access to or can have access to the best of various different key ingredients of success. SOme children from state schools will have this access or ability to access and that will boost confidence, so it's not just about schooling, but those in independent schools are more likely to be offered access by both school and home situation.

So confidence is boosted when you know you have access to great teaching, to great facilities, to great books and learning resources, to tutors or extra help if it's needed, to those who have inside knowledge about how to succeed and will share that info with you, access to people who can help you whether it's with GCSE choices or Uni applications, to a wide choice of sporting, musical and other activities with quality coaching provided, or getting work experience, or accessing a mortgage, or meeting some people who know about a particular firm or industry, or..... You basically know that the chances of failing are very low.

So, just knowing you have access to that stuff, and also that failing is therefore unlikely, or if some kind of failure happens,not here are lots of safety nets and protections in place to help you, makes a lot of difference. Fear is removed, because what is there really to fear if everything that could help you is in place or can be put in place.

So parents can put a lot of this stuff in place, regardless of schools attended, but some kind of knowledge and savvy is required, which all parents simply don't have. So some simply can't help their kids with their school work or give them expert advice about GCSE choices which open doors to the next stage in an academic way, or which Unis might be best for which industry, or supplying a tutor, or access to top sports coaches and musical opportunities. Independnet schools are very experienced in providing a lot of this stuff ....so their children are pushed towards certain types of course and offered a myriad of extra curricular options, so getting involved is just really easy and doesn't require lots of work, and when they find something they like, quality coaching is readily and easily available, plus experts to advise on uni applications, or contacts who can get them work experience whilst at school or contacts during uni years when thinking about the workplace.

So if through your whole life, you've always known that you WILL have access to or can have access if you need it, to the best and that there are lots of people looking out for you who know how to make you a success, it should really boost your condifwnce.

Conversely, if you look around you and know that what is available to you is somehow inferior to what lots of people are getting, then there is no surprise if confidence diminishes. If you look around and know that in your school there are lots of teacher shortages, or you know the school doesn't have books or you hear about other places which have super facilities that your school doesn't have, or clubs and activities that you've never even heard of, then you know things are not equal and some other people elsewhere are getting access to stuff you might not. If you don't have confidence that your school or your parents can provide you with good advice for the next stage of life, or introduce you to those who can, then you may well feel disadvantaged. If you know that if you struggle with someone, there probably won't be much help, or that if you take a risk and things go wrong, there won't be much of a safety net, then your willingness and ability to take risks might well be less.

Lots of children in lots of state schools have huge confidence and self belief. Usually some of it comes from their schools supporting and boosting them, but crucially there is also a home environment telling them they can achieve and providing resources, support and back up in all kinds of ways. Fear is removed and those children believe the future will be bright and they as individuals will have access to and deserve access to everything that is needed for success.

If you don't feel you have access to the stuff needed for success or that somehow you don't deserve access to it and that those things and success itself are things that belong to others but not you, confidence doesn't grow.

So yes, public debating and being taught to shake hands with adults might help.....but it's a much wider issue about having access to a wide range of resources and knowing you will have access to them and expecting to have access to them, which removes fear. The uncertainty about not knowing if they will be there, or suspecting they won't, whilst knowing others are having access diminishes confidence for most.

And yes, there are always some who despite circumstances have huge self belief and confidence....but they are smaller in number.

So it's not just about schools, although school type might provide access to those opportunities and supports which build a sense that failure just can never really happen to you, but schools together with home circumstance and expectations of life and access which makes the difference. That's in my view!

Because SEN children can't get good exam results? You're extremely ignorant

Well, my DC's private school actively kicks out the children with SEN where they can, unless they are very bright and can confirm to their single style of teaching. As it impacts on the 11 + results. Which is crap.

And I think that sadly there is something too in knowing that YOU have access to all this opportunity, when not everyone does. Knowing the playing field isn't level and in your favour does boost confidence, in the same way, being on the other side and knowing it's not level can diminish it.

I don't have the answer but my children attended private for three years and their confidence grew massively. They weren't constantly told they were better than anyone or the best of the best. They were driven to school in a Ferrari and had nice holidays and STILL didn't believe they were better than anyone else, down to me an my partner. I would never allow that to even cross their minds. I'm less than confident and I would shy away from the parent meets. The schools do however teach the children professional behaviour and they do do a lot of presentations and speeches/plays.They're pushed to and past their abilities this could also be helpful, achievement in my eyes makes them feel fantastic and if they can't do something...move on to something else! I will say, the children aren't babied and for me that's great!

I’ve just finished watching BBC2 programme on grammar schools and all the arguments about money and privilege are bs.

What was evident in the programme is that the children who thrive in either private or comps do so because of discipline and/or drive.

Confidence is not about being outspoken, arrogant or other - it’s about being self assured, motivated to succeed, and coping mechanisms. Introverts can have plenty of this.

You can provide discipline and support at home.

My DH and i both state educated modest families. We are introverts, find that relaxed confidence hard. Have 2 DC's both at private schools. They are pretty confident. One thing we struggle with constantly is the unpleasant sense of entitlement that private school does engender. We hate it. Crops up everyday ......"when I learn to drive I can go and do what I want when I want" etc etc. Also the sense that they are always right....there's a lack of humility too often.
I believe in any organisation culture permeates from top to bottom. So if I were to point the finger, in all honesty...it,would be towards the Head Teachers in some of these top private schools.

Yes there is a huge range of good and bad in state and private schools, so much depending on the communities they are situated in and the resources they get access to. I believe great leadership and teachers are the key ingredient but a great teacher will still struggle to help a child that had burdens outside school such as poverty and unsafe neighborhoods.

My parents were shit as building confidence

Calledyou - my parents were supportive and encouraging. I still have to take a beta blocker to give a presentation.
Maybe it's our personality that makes us nervous rather than what our parents did or didn't do.

If anyone reading this thread is considering sending their children to private schools - it's worth checking out whether or not said private schools are not-for-profit organisations.

Most private schools don't have a profit motive - the motivation is to give the kids a great education. There are some private schools that are owned privately and exist to make money for their owners. It's definitely worth checking out before you apply

Firstly most private schools have no SEN (or very mild at best). So in my opinion they mostly have good exam results by fraud.

Sort of overlooks the top private schools that have dedicated SEN provision, like the Brighton College Dyslexia Centre. Or Clifton College Prep Learning Support provision in Bristol. I know parents who've specifically sent their children to these two schools because their sons are dyslexic & hyperlexic respectively.

The thing I noticed from the Grammar school system,mor those who didn't. Make it to the Grammar, was that they were sure things were better in the Grammars and they were missing out. Regardless of whether this was true (and it probably was) if you feel you are getting a raw deal and others have access to something brilliant you don't have access to, your confidence will fall in most cases. Some will fight back more determined and sure they can succeed, but most will take from that situation that they are lacking in ability compared to others, or the others will have access to resources and opportunities not available to them, and that failure, which has already been experienced, is a very real and likely thing.....what is due to you or you are owed almost.

I agree with the previous poster who put it effectively and simply, that if you know you're at the top of society in terms of opportunity and resources and that success is pretty much guaranteed I smoke form or another and the worst thing that an happen isn't actually very bad at all because of the support available to you, then yes, you would be confident in most cases.....the fears and self doubt are simply lessened, whilst they remain very real for most of the population.

So those children from privileged backgrounds know and see that most of their older peers are successes. They see that if something wrong happens there are plenty of people to help and bail them out and find a new successful route...that nothing is permanant ruin, because the support and safety nets around them are vast. Schools provide some of that support and safety net, but much is provided by the home situation....and it's easier to provide if you're wealthy. Of course the less well off can provide it too, but it gets harder the less well off people are.

Not all independently educated children are confident, as theis thread clearly shows. Often it wasn't the schools which didn't support or provide for them, but their families which didn't deliver the resources or support required for them to have self belief, or they negatively compared themselves to others, or of course some of it is just a personality thing.

If you feel valued and important and know that others are around to support you and they can support you, fear diminishes.

Want2bSupermum, you have got to be joking that SEN provision is better in private schools in the UK. Many won’t even take SEN children and I know from bitter experience they will have no hesitation in kicking your child out if they feel your child isn’t up to their standards!

I think when people talk about this wonderful confidence you get from private school, they don't mean confidence at all. Certainly not inner confidence. They mean 'this wonderful ability to pretend you're confident.'

sorry haven't RTFT but i think the two key things my dcs get from their private school re building confidence are:

1. extra curricular activities
2. interactive lessons with demanding teachers - you can't sit there and dream / drift / passively observe. You have to contribute, have an opinion.

I don't believe children in state schools are less confident. In fact for many they have to be more confident to succeed in those areas that private schools hold up as success; when the odds are against them. (Such as getting into Oxbridge or Red Brick Uni's). Success is about much more than this, it's being confident and happy about your choices in life and about who you are as this is far more important.