to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

How do you feel about the much more prevalent and virulent “hating on” state schools?

I think its important to be clear when posting that not being prepared to take the hand you were dealt isn't "hating on" state schools. I very much wanted DD to go state (and she is moving to the state system for secondary), what I wasn't prepared to do was accept the school we were given when she was 5 which would have been entirely wrong for her.

@bertrandrussell but neither you or your dh went to private schools? (Sorry, I know I am being very nosy!)

Lots of opportunities for public speaking, debates etc.Being expected to always do their very best and not taking second best work etc.A culture of helping younger pupils, maybe running clubs for them.Opportunities to shine in sport as well as academics.The higher expectations that many schools have.This will apply to grammar schools too.Charity and voluntary work, a chance to meet people from all walks of life.CCF cadets army, airforce, navy, this may be one you could do at home.

I've been to both state and private. These are specifically my experiences, so may well be different for different people.

Firstly most private schools have no SEN (or very mild at best). So in my opinion they mostly have good exam results by fraud.

Private schools are very competitive (unlike state schools) - I always knew exactly where I was in the class and had a report with my place in each subject at the end of each term. If I was failing at something I would get extra encouragement. State schools only intervene if a pupil is failing badly because they just don't have the resources to waste on someone who's just coasting. That's where motivated parenting comes very handy.

All kids are encouraged to do as much as possible extracurricular stuff in private. For me this included things like qualifications in public speaking (in year 7 - 1st form), sports (eg horseriding) and music. We regularly got eg tickets to Wimbledon, and visits from sports stars and others at the top of their game who gave rousing speeches. That had to have had an impact.

State school is massively more inclusive, but can be very anti-competitive because they're trying to get everyone through as well as possible. There are a lot of extra-curricular activities in some state schools, but I got very little encouragement to do anything - so I largely didn't.

There are people on very little money in private schools, just as there are a lot of very wealthy parents whose children are in state schools. In both, wealth gives some advantage but doesn't account for everything.

People in private schools think kids in state schools are feral - I think a state school would have eaten my gentle DS alive. He might not have found an inspirational physics teacher. He wouldn't have found an environment where being very clever was kind of cool. They're not, they're just kids - some are gentle, some are academic. There are good teachers. I would say that the above was a ridiculous statement, but I understand that the fear is real, if unfounded.

It's amazingly common - the 7% who go to private schools think all the other 93% are somehow different from them. I heard that a lot at parties with my parents (luckily my parents didn't think that!).

Private school kids also learn to speak better. I learned to have a very clear, 'posh' speaking voice there which has helped me at times (especially when I'm phoning someone and want to sound like I have some authority.).

@dapplegrey - I think that’s quite a common thing to say to people who work with kids too and I find it interesting - if I hated all kids than yeah I probably wouldnt be well suited to working with them but I can privately be thinking ‘you’re a twat’ about a minority of them and not show it, much like anyone in any job. I don’t believe all people in client facing roles think all their clients are great.

Also you might think - ah I bet they can tell you think they’re a twat - but I have seen teachers act beautifully toward kids they have turned round and bad mouthed after they walk out and I would not have predicted it. It’s not a nice way to talk about children but trust me teachers do it - very good teachers too!

“bertrandrussell but neither you or your dh went to private schools? (Sorry, I know I am being very nosy!)”

Happy, if puzzled, to answer. No, neither of us did. Oh, I went to one for 6 months in Malta once....

I suspect the difference between me and some posters on here is that I have actually met some state schoo, children and lived to tell the tale......

My DD does the same activity with two different groups, one group is in an area where most of her peers are privately educated, and certainly most have advantaged parents who could privately educate if they chose too. The other group is in an area which has a much lower income group, and most of her peers don't and probably couldn't afford private education, but obviously we're not talking poor here as they have the money for the group.

The groups do the same niche activity (it being niche which is why DD has to do it in two different places) in a similar set up, with the same young age groups. In one class the parents leave the kids to organise themselves to sign in with the coaches, sort their kit out, get ready and often go off and do something else. In the other the parents sign them in, the parents sort the kit out, etc.

It's not surprising to me that one of those two groups of kids display as being significantly more confident and self assured, but it's not the private education that is the differences, it's the parental expectation that they can do it. And that parental expectation tends to go along with the sort of social advantages which are required to be able to afford private school. There's no difference if they actually do or not.

Hi mathanxiety I agree with everything you mentioned. I am not suggesting that kid's don't choose a heavy schedule and more power to them. It is just something that isn't necessary to still meet goals. I was also explaining why our children are in private school, it is not because we are rejecting public schools, which in our region are excellent.

Our school is a small community and really offers a lot of emotional support, which is a high priority for me for various reasons. The school still offers all the kinds of amazing experiences you mentioned, for example we usually win state every year for Mock Trial and recently won nationals, same for sports, newspaper, sports, theatre etc. In this year's graduating class 2 girls from the soccer team which has won state for 3 years are going to Harvard and the kids go to the usual range of prestigious public and private unis around the nation and abroad.

Saying that, I like that the child's health and happiness come first and other kids chose less well known or nationally ranked schools because it is a good fit for them.

My kids emotional health is just very important to me. My eldest dd is in a lot of leadership training and service activities because more and more she has discovered that is what she loves. That has been down to her own motivation. She also participates in sports year round and qualified for Metros in the spring. She hopes to go to our local public uni because it is very large and offers so much opportunity including her second language at a very high standard which she can double Major in immediately. She looked at many other schools but she likes being in a big international city, especially because all her favorite music artists come through town (including the more obscure ones). It's her own free choice. She also realised the smaller cosy department of her language gave her a smaller community within this huge larger community.

Just yesterday one of my best friends came over to see me and told me about her ds. He is her third to go to college and was pulling down straight As in engineering as a junior. However he decided to drop out and come home because of severe anxiety. She said they tried to get him help at his uni and found that all the counselors on and off campus were completely booked solid because of the huge rates of depression and anxiety in young adults. We had a long chat about why this might be so prevalent. She said she didn't know a single family who didn't have at least one child suffering from MH issues and/or eating disorders.

I was actually very shocked her son was suffering like this as he is such an incredible young man, very mature and who has had many leadership responsibilities.

I still am very happy to focus on my kids getting enough sleep, rest and unscheduled downtime and keep our priority as their emotional and physical health. They are all still doing great and finding their way, but I know some of their close friends who do so much I know for a fact they are existing on very little sleep.

:) I have to say as a private school parent I don't think that state educated children are feral

Not all of them anyway :) Just joking - sheesh! Stop hoicking your judgeypants

There's a pair next door. I'm keeping an eye on them just in case they take to heroin addiction. They're a particularly considerate pair of kids. Pretty well most people at work are state educated - they seem to me not to be feral. I think they are all okay on the eating front

It's just that I don't think a state school would have been the right environment for my DS. That's okay isn't it?

Higher expectations.

Ds is 5 and in private school. The difference is the little things. Every morning and at the end of the day they have to look their teacher in the eye and shake hands and say good morning or good afternoon, if they don’t look them in the eye they have to repeat it until they do. They are used to this routine so when we were meeting dh at work and unexpectedly bumped into someone incredible senior in his investment bank when ds had just turned 5 ds could confidently shake hand with him and said hello I am (first name followed by second name) and have minor chit chat without prompting (and this is a boy who had a speech delay). They perform all the time. At 5 he has done plays to parents in English and also French and probably do some sort of performance to parents about 2-3 times a term (I spend half my life there watching him!) he has already done poetry recitals and everyone has to do it. Debate is really encouraged from the start of preprep, age 5 and last week they were learning what democracy was, there is no dumbing down and they do really get it and he came home to talk to me all about it. They also have smaller classes which gives them the freedom to do so much the curriculum is so exciting every single day. Even lunchtime is thought of as a learning experience, they eat a range of foods and extremely good table manners are just expected so taking him out to good restaurants is easy. It all just gives them that boost of confidence.

Because going to private school makes you feel like you belong to the upper classes / elite. Most who go to private schools are wealthy, part of 'high-up' families, and these are the ones that are confident. Scholarship kids are often the quiet ones. I went to a very well-known, very expensive girls college.

The teachers at our teenage children's private school noticeably treat the children like adults. They converse with them and encourage them to have a point of view which can be shared and valued in and out of class. This is what I think gives my children their confidence. They are not afraid to politely give an opinion because they have learnt that whilst their opinion may not always be correct, it will always be valued.

I am pretty sure that there are state schools who do the same.

mathanxiety- I hear what you are saying about other countries not worrying about raising kids to be confident, but I also can tell you that many kids in the UK are much less confident than in other countries. So perhaps that is the reason why people want to know how to make kids more confident.

FWIW I was educated in a different country and have taught at 3 other countries. I was never made to feel bad for asking questions, debating ideas with teachers, or having the wrong uniform. Kids here are ingrained with not calling attention to themselves and to never question a teacher. I am not sure this is a good educational experience. There are of course other positives in the UK compared to other countries, but in terms of confidence, I think our typical expectations for high school students have a lot to answer.

I went to a minor girls' public school but am so grateful that my parents got the money together to send me there. It (and the prep schools I went to) taught me so much about social skills, confidence, things you just need to know. I did speech and drama which was great for learning how to project your voice and speak confidently. At my prep school, everybody learned ballet and a subject called 'ear training' which was basically learning about the make-up of an orchestra and how to identify instruments. We learned to write music and how to interact with adults in a social environment. It was wonderful and I can still remember so much from that time.

Confidence and self assurance is found in state schools. I have known many from both sectors who find it hard to survive in the world of hard knocks. It is not something that comes with a posh accent or a love of Handel. The problem I find with most private education is that it gives those who go there very little understanding of what life is like for the majority of people in this country. In that respect their education is sadly lacking.

Privilege. Money.

“It's just that I don't think a state school would have been the right environment for my DS. That's okay isn't it?”

No. Because you are still dismissing all state schools, and saying that your ds would have been eaten alive and not got good physics teaching at any of them. You would, very rightly, object if I was to say anything as stupid as “private school kids are arrogant and entitled”.

ManicInsomniac's list is good. They are things you can emulate to an extent at home too.

Just to say that yes private schools might turn out some very confident people, they also turn out nasty arrogant people, not to mention the poor sods who have been crapped on all through school by the arrogant ones who are also monsterous bullies. It's a very mixed bag and there are several who leave with their self esteem in tatters.

Just bring your child up how you see fit. It's all any of us can do.

My Dds both attended state schools until they were 16 and then got scholarships at different girls independent schools for sixth form. One is a very small school with tiny class sizes and girls of all ages were encouraged to work together in the house system. The other school is a large and very well known school but the sixth form seems to be very separate to the rest of the school. Both girls were very shy when they joined.

I didn't observe any changes in Dd who attended the large, well known and prestigious school. Although there were many opportunities there, girls did not have to take part in anything if they did not want to. There was plenty of room to hide. They didn't mix with the younger girls.

Dd who went to the very small and relatively unknown school was a changed girl by the time she left. There was nowhere to hide. She was forced out of her comfort zone at every opportunity. The teachers all took a personal interest in her and encouraged her every step of the way. She had to speak in assembly at least once a week and was forced to take part in sports and other activities that she would never have done otherwise. Her confidence soared in the two years that she was there. It wasn't a particularly academic school but they gave her the self-belief she needed and she got great results.

Private school kids also learn to speak better. I learned to have a very clear, 'posh' speaking voice there which has helped me at times (especially when I'm phoning someone and want to sound like I have some authority.).

I have a child in state and in private. Both speak nicely. Like me in fact. Which is where they learnt it from. Not the school.

Mainly through the prep of oral presentations instead of essays for some types of homework. Reading aloud. Lots of extracurriculars such as debate / drama / singing club.

@BertrandRussell

Having worked in 4 state schools full time and visited many whilst I was a supply teacher, I personally have not seen this. I haven't seen people hating on state schools. Apart from the actual pupils of course .

Could you give me some examples?

I went and made tea and thought some more about this. On reflection, I can remember a few of the kids I went to school with being entitled and rude little pricks. Doesn't mean everyone should be tarred with the same brush however. I certainly don't tar state school kids with the same brush. I don't think kids should be tarred with any brushes...

"My friend says they make her children do loads of public speaking from a very early age - her kids have to get up and recite French poetry aged 7"

I don't think it's this at all. Speaking in public is only one aspect. I went to a comprehensive, but outside we had Sunday School and extra curricular activities where we had to perform in public. I suddenly became too scared from adolescence onwards so lost that confidence, but it's not really about speaking in front of a group is it, it's about confidence in all sorts of other situations.
I wish my school had done more public speaking, drama (school was obsessed with music) and done any debating at all though. I joined deb soc at university, but was intimidated by the law students, and also by the former private school ones.

I actually think it's just a knowledge of their place in society. They know they're at the top and will be successful. I would be confident as well in that situation.