to ask how do private schools produce such "confident" kids / adults and how I can do it at home?

[dragontwo]

Ok, I have my reservations about private schools, but I recognise that often they produce kids / adults with high self confidence and self assurance.

I want to know how they do this, how they drill this confidence into them, and how I can replicate any beneficial aspects of this at home into my own kid (state schooled)?

What do they say / do / teach that encourages them to be so confident and expect success?

I know there are down sides to everything but I'm just thinking about good ideas I can help my kid. NB I'm no tiger mother and do my best to encourage my kid as it is already but just looking for ideas and general thoughts on how it's done!!

Just curious!

Do have to say, they do produce some confident kids but they also break others! Our youngest was in private school from reception till we removed her half way through year 4. We kept saying something not right and they just said she wasn't confident. They ended up sending her to a SEN for help with her spelling, 1 session and we got told to get her tested for dyslexia. Bingo she was even though she could read, they didn't agree she needed extra help, we carried on for 5 months but it was all fight fight fight, other issues tipped the balance and we just said enough is enough and removed her. Been in local state primary for 2 years, the difference in everything is amazing. She's caught up and gone passed her peers. Confident happy and achieving, her sats were a breeze, not even worried about the results, would have failed if they did them in private school. One size doesn't fit all, but the school caring does not bums on seats for money and not doing what they should, for each child. Spelling still pants though

Thanks for this thread op.
I've learnt that if I shake hands with my dc and talk to them at the dinner table, I can save myself a quarter of a million pounds in school fees.

I have perfect manners - but at my state school the swots, the neerdy to kids, the uncool kids, the 'good kids', the girls who didn't look like Debbie Harry or were interested in boys (and therefore must be ugly lesbians) got a rough ride and kept their heads down.

Why should any child have to 'keep their head down'. That school sounds like a vile collection of bullies.

I agree with a few of the above. My children go to a very old fashioned prep school ..
It’s going on stage, presenting all the time. They have strong values and the children need to be obedient, polite and respectful to others. They literally stand to attention if they see the head.
They do the LAMDA qualification too - which is available to do outside of school... poetry, passages from books and it’s content.

It’s a multitude of things but as a parent of a primary age private school kid and a governor at a state school there are some glaring differences that I believe make a difference. And there are many financial/legal/governance reasons why some of those things do/can happen in a private school not a state.

Public speaking/performing constantly, in class, in shows, in assemblies, in soloist concerts, debating etc.. you just don’t get to hide.

Requirement to shake hands, look teacher in eye and say confidently good morning/good evening every single day (it’s so easy and so effective)

Discipline - they are responsible from yr 2/3 normally for everything, not their parents. Kit/homework/timetables/knowing what team they’re in and when/getting to extra activities/music lessons themselves on time etc... no excuses no parent excuses either. It’s tough at first but we all get used to it. And they all contribute to “houses” discipline affects not just them but their “team” through lost points, missing events etc...

Competitive sport, auditioning for plays/shows, singing comps, poetry comps, drawing comps... they all find their thing and they get to win at it.

Drop Off.... literally! Past year 2 you almost never see parents hanging around with kids in the playground it’s expected that you drop and go... our pre-prep has the same if you choose too with teachers to head them in... my yr 4 walks home, they let them out at 4pm (from yr 4) and they are off. The look and comments of horror from parent governors that the kids would be distraught if parents couldn’t stay until the bell in the morning went, when I suggested it at a meeting reviewing parking issues was amazing to me.

As above my experience (two private schools due to move) is that neither the school or the parents (on the whole) mollycoddle them during school hours, authority is to be respected and most parents respect the school and trust them to do what’s right. And this ironically creates kids with enough confidence to question said authority too, they just do it with respect most of the time so works both ways.

Entitlement- yes... these kids are privileged there’s no denying they’re not, but I rarely see the stereotypical type mentioned here. They usually have successful, confident, hard working parents and that rubs off. They also have the type of parent (and a school who feels comfortable doing the same) who is much more likely to tell them to get a grip and get on with it if they falter than a parent who would allow them not to try. Not saying that’s better or worse just my observation. If you’re told you can do it just try/keep trying enough usually you do do it.

Much less health and safety rubbish... So they get to really play/run/snowball fight/wander far/take risks and that builds confidence in itself.

Not sure how replicable this is at home but it does work and the school rather than parents tend to drive it. Unexpectedly I have found the more you pay the less you even consider interfering unless it’s obviously a serious health/safeguarding etc.. risk to your child. Children grow in the sun, not in the shade of their parents!

^Bertrand Russell* apologies for causing any upset.

The thing is - I can't prove my belief that DS would not have done as well. It's just that knowing the child and knowing how gentle and unassuming he is - I believe he might not have done so well.

I refer you to another post on the thread which commented "at my state school the swots, the neerdy to kids, the uncool kids, the 'good kids', the girls who didn't look like Debbie Harry or were interested in boys (and therefore must be ugly lesbians) got a rough ride and kept their heads down"

I don't think DS (who was a cathedral chorister) would have thrived in that environment.

Oh my gosh. It winds me up so much when I see people hating on private schools. 'Money gives them an advantage, 'a sense of entitlement... it's pathetic. Comes across as jealous and bitter.
I went to private school. But our family was not rich!! My mum was a healthcare assistant for the NHS!! Single mum with 2 children!
I got a scholarship and when the finances became too much, my Mum had to apply to education charities to ask for financial help. I was very lucky but I had to work damn hard for it!! I had to maintain high grades and effort levels all throughout the academic year and the charities were sent my reports every half term, end of term and end of year.

OP, I would agree with alot of what has been said previous. I'm an ex teacher too (in a state school) so seen both sides.

Smaller class sizes (v important)
Competitive atmosphere (not too much)
Very dedicated teachers
Homework club every night
Lots of extra curricular opportunities - I went to Paris, Rome, joined army cadets, had a go at D of E, sports clubs, art club, drama productions...

However... alot of it came from home. Not just from my mum. My grandparents too. They all pushed me to achieve the best I could. Encouraged me to read, to join in, to do better than last time, to take pride in my work... even early on in primary school, their input was very influential.

It was very much a multi directional approach.

The head of my DCs school reads this poem at the leavers assembly every year. It’s all about attitude. She also shakes hands with the children and gently lifts their chin if they don’t look her in the eye. She’s actually a bit hippy, and runs a lovely family friendly school, but she is a great advocate of reinforcing each child’s potential without fuss or drama. I believe Nelson Mandela quoted this poem in his inauguration speech in 1994.
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”

Things like LAMDA and ESB are great for confidence and speaking in public, and if you can find good local connections for extra curricular opportunities then that goes a long way. Look for good sports clubs to join, or dance and music providers, ideally ones that have relationships with wider specialists, e.g. choirs who perform in professional venues... A range of activities is also helpful, it's great for building up friendship networks and can help with resilience and adaptability. Often these things are expensive, but not when you compare to the cost of private education. A lot of the time, professional theatres and music venues have their own (often free) programmes to try and engage with young people too. Taking on responsibilities and learning how to socialise with adults is a big thing, so try and find opportunities for DC to volunteer, (helping younger children to practise their reading is good one) or to interact with adults in new ways (e.g. non family adults/ possible mentors, that kind of thing.)

Let's look at what state schools don't do, perhaps.

I was state educated at good (sometimes 'outstanding') state schools all the way through, in top set for everything, straight-A student, who went on to Russell Group uni etc.

1. Speaking up, and being clever isn't really encouraged. Though I was encouraged to try hard and told I was clever and that I should apply to go uni to do competitive subjects, it was also made clear to me that by being clever made their lessons more difficult as I was increasing the ability gap in the room. I was asked to stop being the person always asking/answering questions.

1. They don't have much extra curricular stuff, especially for clever people. A petition was set up by a member of staff to stop me and the rest of top set science going on a particular school trip specifically designed for top set, as it was unfair and 'elitist'. Compare that to the 'how to be a barrister' talks my friends who are teachers in private school take their students to as a matter of course from about year 8. I didn't even know these things existed until well after I left uni.

1. You aren't told you are special by dint of being there. More than once (way more than once) I have had privately educated people assume I went to state school because I was not clever enough to pass the tests required to go to their school. It is very common (to normal) to meet privately educated people still assuming intellectual superiority due to 'passing' a test when they were 13.

1. You have to meet people from different, challenging backgrounds. This means you learn that it isn't all hard work and sparky intellect that gets you places, a lot of it is opportunities and good fortune. This means you are less likely to assume you are purely to credit for your own success. This may well lead to less confidence.

1. You don't assume other people are interested in your educational background. Have you ever met a state educated person in their 20s or beyond still dining out, almost exclusively on stories from their school days? No, me neither. Yet privately educated individuals assume that people are interested in, and aware of, the intricacies of their school career. Even the nice, open-minded, friends with me and are in the Labour Party types assume this, don't give a fiddlers fart about what happened to me at my school, or know or want to know how old you are in year 8. I once met a privately educated charmer who asked me where I went to school. They had never heard of it. Turned out they grew up on the road it was on. They just simply didn't give a fuck and had never been expected to.

Plus everything Mba1974 said.

“^Bertrand Russell* apologies for causing any upset”

Sorry, apology not accepted. I am fed up with the typical Mumsnet characterization of state schools and the children who go to them. There are good schools and bad schools in both sectors, but to say that a clever sensitive boy would not thrive, or do well at physics in state school is just ridiculously offensive.

Contacts help a lot.

“Oh my gosh. It winds me up so much when I see people hating on private schools.“

How do you feel about the much more prevalent and virulent “hating on” state schools?

I think the key is to enable the child to find an area where they truly excell in so that they realise that with hard work they can become very good at something and start to believe in their inner strength and worth. At your typical prep school that would mean achieving grade 8 in an instrument, playing county rugby, going on an international tour as a choirister or taking maths GCSEs in year 6. At senior school it could mean setting up your own successful company for Young Enterprise, organising a conference or event with notable figures attending or being on team GB for rowing or fencing. If you don't develop real confidence that is based on hard work and outstanding achievement, you might at least learn social skills and how to appear confident but might well feel as a failure for the rest of your life because your mate made prime minister and you not (there is a lot of self doubt going on behind the facade).

Having high expectations, but sadly a history of success. If you're at a school where people get excellent results, Oxbridge etc, then you also walk with that confidence. Failure is generally hidden. Praise them in what they're good at and give them that confidence.

@bertrandrussell do you know anyone personally who went to a private school? Sorry if you have already said, I have only read your latest posts.

I haven't rtft sorry but I went to a private school for about 4 years, and I think that pupils from these schools appear to be confident because they are picking up the mannerisms of the children around them, and the same culture gets handed down year to year.

The confidence is only skin deep and the pupils who go on to do well are those who have other skills, and I do think in many cases the other skills are taught to them by their parents - things like being hard working, determined, emotionally intelligent.

Some pupils from private schools though seeming confident do not necessarily do well, take too many drugs, not fulfilling potential, other.

I learned some really good study skills from the school, and I think that was down to the teaching and pupil management. When I left I went to a state sixth form and did well in my A levels even though my teachers spent 70 percent of my A level years on strike.

Sorry, apology not accepted. I am fed up with the typical Mumsnet characterization of state schools and the children who go to them. There are good schools and bad schools in both sectors, but to say that a clever sensitive boy would not thrive, or do well at physics in state school is just ridiculously offensive.

I can understand someone saying this tbh if it’s based on their own experiences.

My friends and I all went to the same school, a state school with a good reputation in the area that was actually horrendous in terms of behaviour, ethos, encouragement, and we think only seemed ‘good’ to the wider community because the others around it were so shit (and visually it was a huge old beautiful building in massive grounds).

Funnily enough we were talking about this yesterday and about the cost of private education (kinda led on from discussing nursery fees) and we all agreed we would do whatever it took to prevent children of ours going to a school like that. That it would be a waste of time and like throwing a child on the scrap heap. We wouldn’t want to put a child through a school where the ethos was to keep your head down, kids who wanted to learn were vigorously bullied, and behavioural standards were so low (even in top sets) it was pretty much impossible to learn anything during the school day.

We did okayish considering, as we were naturally fairly bright and happy to study away from school, but all feel our natural potential was crushed by the place and would feel neglectful allowing our kids to go.

None of us could probably afford private fees so I guess it’s academic, but when the time comes for kids to go to secondary school we’d be extremely cautious/worried.

Also I happen to have worked at A Very Posh Well Known Boys School and some of those boys are fucking awful

Pingudance - how long did you work there? You can't have enjoyed it much if you thought the boys were fucking awful and I don't imagine you were very good st your job if you had such a negative attitude towards the students.

Bertrand Russell I can't do any more than apologise if I am wrong - which I may well be - DS can't relive his past - it's the road not taken.

I did add that DS was a cathedral chorister and there was a reason for adding that. Very few state school educated children have the opportunity to be a cathedral chorister (Solihull being the only exception that I am aware of - but of course there may be others). I can't imagine a state school where loving Handel is cool but maybe I am wrong and for that I apologise

I am fed up with the typical Mumsnet characterization of state schools and the children who go to them

Oh come on you're being slightly disingenuous if you think there aren't equal amounts of characterizations of private schools - have you read this thread?!

As I repeatedly say on every thread you cannot make it as easy as private vs state; the only way of making a comparison is directly comparing the schools you have an opportunity to send your children to.

The biggest draw for us was smaller classes and lack of need to stick to curriculum.

@dapplegrey - it was a coaching role that was on a short contract - I actually did enjoy it but it was very strange. Most of them were nice and some were fantastic. And some of them were awful - really just horrible boys with appalling attitudes to anyone poor, female, not clever. It doesn’t actually make you bad at your job to be able to recognise when students are entitled knobheads.

“@bertrandrussell do you know anyone personally who went to a private school? Sorry if you have already said, I have only read your latest posts”

I’m a middle class middle aged woman - of course I do. Loads of the buggers! There are 4 currently in my ds’s bedroom for a start.........

It's practice. I think you get chanelled to succeed and do well, ad enjoy it. You see in state school, it's not so cool to be a swot, boffin, top of the class. But in private school people don't think badly of you for doing well. It's good to do well, that's what is told. Parents are paying £20000 a year so they are invested/forcing them into that/ making sure. There are loads of unconfident private school kids full of doubt. But in class you are taught to engage and not ridiculed if you had the answer. You are prepared for exams more. I went to many schools, terrible bits about both. But I can fake being self assured well. Maybe also a case of older parents who spend time with their kids more in conversation and engage them in politics/world issues etc......

AsAProfessionalFekko Thu 14-Jun-18 11:42:49
Thats just not so. Who didn't tell their kids that they are special, great, talented

Speaking of 'trapped in a prison of their own (their parents') image'...

Telling your child they are anything - be it stupid or smart, talented or a loser - is a terrible idea.

Praise effort, in detail - ask for the thought behind something they have done and then ask follow up questions. Appreciate time and thought expended on a project (Lego, whatever).

It's interesting to me that this conversation crops up on a UK based forum. I don't think parents in the US are pulling out their hair wondering how to raise confident children. It's not an issue that causes angst there and I do not think parents in continental European countries feel it either. I wonder if the mental image of public-school educated people and the fact that accents divide social classes in the UK makes people conflate the perception of confidence with the image of members of the UMC.