To think Scotland has a better future than England

[hadenough]

The state of the UK today makes me utterly depressed. A Brexit voted for on the basis of lies, an anti-immigrant rhetoric, and a general attitude of unwelcome.

But yet, in Scotland, the message is very different - a focus on welcoming people to the country, an opposition to Brexit, and a real debate about the future.

It genuinely saddens me to be part of a wider country that appears intent on going back, but never forward.

Thanks for that link Nyx, I’ll read it later.

I was arguing against misinformation, not free prescriptions. We deserve to have the truth.

Scotland has more chance of not only surviving but of thriving in or out of the EU if it is self governing rather than governed by Westminster. See other small/similar populationed countries. Outlook for Brexit Britain is scary and I am glad Scotland has the chance of a different outcome.

England is the only U.K. country where prescriptions are means tested - free for all in Scotland, Wales and (I think) NI.

I'm with @Itchytights

Scottish born and bred too.

On the surface, all is tempting, but there are other aspects that are skimmed over in this discussion.
(Re free prescriptions - with so many being exempt from charges, old, young, poor, chronically sick etc, it costs poor to administer the exemptions than the income generated from those who pay.)
We live near the border with Wales and many envy the free prescriptions without realising the waiting lists for appointments and treatment are horrendous, far, far longer than this side.
On a purely selfish note, the drugs I have which are keeping my stage 4 cancer at bay are not available on the NHS in Scotland. I wouldn't get to benefit from that free elderly care! How can that be better?

But why, Yogafailure and Itchytights? Why the laughing? I take it you're Brexiters who believe the UK will thrive after the cliff-edge Brexit we're steering towards?

Which small countries are we cherry picking this time now Ireland has fallen out of favour?

Scotland will suffer the effects of Brexit even if independent, particularly if as planned in the Growth Commission we use GBP on separation. Why layer an independence shock on top of a Brexit shock and amplify the effects?

Scottish students pay backStudent Loans when they earn 18k, rather than 24k in England

Announced yesterday it will be 25k.

I agree with you.

I'm moving to Scotland this year!

Trixy the Growth Commission has recommendations and options meant for discussion and debate not a plan.

In my opinion for Scotland to have a chance of thriving we need to unhook from Brexit Britain and the current government in Westminster. Self governing and making decisions for the good of Scotland.

It will be uncertain and bumpy but is the best course for Scotland. We have the resources and the skills and can do as well as any country. It is a lovely place to live and work and I think we can attract people to live and work here.

Welcome, Elspeth!

Funny then that the SNP seem unwilling to debate about it.

Also funny that the message has switched from it’s all going to be milk and honey in 2014 to it being a turbo austerity in 2018. If that’s their optimistic message then how bad is the reality going to be?!?!

I'm hoping independence can help cushion the effects of Brexit, Trixy. We're going to go through a shock with Brexit as you've said yourself. With Independence we can do our best to build our economy for our benefit and who knows, even rejoin the EU and regain its benefits. You've pointed out yourself that the status quo is no longer an option for Scotland - Brexit has scuppered that. So our options are stay with the UK and be ignored, sidelined, used, our MPs jeered at in Westminster, the media putting us down at every option, be told that everything we do is rubbish - or to become independent and make our own decisions.

It was never pitched as milk and honey in 2014, austerity was mentioned, as was time to allow the economy to recover after independence.

I can’t argue back using logic because your points make absolutely no sense. Ok, you hate the SNP and Indy campaigns. That’s fine, that’s your right. But if you want to make political points, can you try using facts please? Otherwise it’s an exercise in futility.

You've pointed out yourself that the status quo is no longer an option for Scotland - Brexit has scuppered that. So our options are stay with the UK and be ignored, sidelined, used, our MPs jeered at in Westminster, the media putting us down at every option, be told that everything we do is rubbish - or to become independent and make our own decisions.

Totally agree.

You've pointed out yourself that the status quo is no longer an option for Scotland - Brexit has scuppered that. So our options are stay with the UK and be ignored, sidelined, used, our MPs jeered at in Westminster, the media putting us down at every option, be told that everything we do is rubbish - or to become independent and make our own decisions

This. Also, Spain has said they wouldn’t veto an independent Scotland joining the EU as they did in 2014 because that was to discourage the Catalan Indy movement, which has now peaked.

Personally I want to stay in the EU, and as it stands independence is the only way to achieve that.

The SNP are going to debate growth commission - it will be debated in detail. There will be three national assemblies over the summer. Plenty of debate will be had.

I agree totally with lifesavingorange about Scottish exceptionalism.

What also bothers me is the cognitive dissonance that Brexit is bad and scexit is good.

As far as I’m concerned the arguments for both are uncannily similar. Similar othering, similar promises that will never and can never be kept.

Similar othering, similar promises that will never and can never be kept

Much like The Vow and the promises that a No vote would be the only way to guarantee continued membership of the EU?

You seem to think that it is only nationalists who can be pulled up on inconsistencies, when that just isn’t true.

Sigh. Brexit and Scexit as you call it, are totally different. If you were referring to Scexit as Scotland leaving the EU, they would be the same. But they're not. The EU and the UK are nothing at all similar. Not similar at all. So yes, I can say that I think Brexit is bad, and I think Scotland exiting the UK (particularly if it then decides to re-enter the EU) is good.

Nyx the “debate” as far as I understand it will only be had with select groups of Indy supporters, so no debate really. They’ve already excluded the Common Weal from events as they don’t agree with them.

rogue what exactly is your position that you can analyse the Scottish education system? Your damning of subjects is just breath taking. What is your issue with Higher English? I have just taken a class through Higher English who have, as usual, worked extremely hard. Are you minimising their efforts? Are you minimising the literature they studied?
I have had various pupils sit A level English at college directly after Higher in S5 and battered it no bother. So where's your difference?
I've also had a colleague ( English living in Scotland) move back home for a job, only to hurry back to Scotland after a year, shaking her head at the English education system and desperate to teach again here.

I am an English born Scot and a member of English Scots for Yes. This rubbish about the Indy movement or the SNP promoting a hatred of the English needs to be put to bed.
Of course there are some eejits who hate English people ( I actually saw more of that WELL before the referendum), however I am actually seeing more of an upsurge of anti Scot feeling. Especially in MSM comments.
As an English born Scot living here for many years, I have had the odd comment, ( mostly in jest), but I have never ever been made to feel unwelcome.
The odd bunch of idiots ( not directed at me), have been shouted down by the vast majority of decent people.
St George's flag flew proudly in the last Indy march in Dumfries by many of us, and was cheered.

And as for lifesavingorange's point about scottish exceptionalism, as i said to them, "I don't believe people anywhere think that Scottish individuals are more kind/caring/whatever than individuals from anywhere else in the UK. The glaring difference is in the politics. England votes Conservative. They have voted Tory a lot in the last decades. Scotland does not. Tory policies are not 'better, fairer, more committed to social justice' and I'd like to see you argue that they are."

Which part of the vow wasn’t delivered?

We did stay in the EU after the referendum. We’d have been out in 2016 if there had been a yes vote.