To think a lot of left wing people are actually close minded?

[DeepFatFriar]

Close minded as in not receptive to other peoples views.

Disclaimer: i consider myself left wing.

But at the same time, I'm quite happy to have a talk with someone down the pub who might be anti immigration or anti abortion. As long as they've thought their point out properly, im open to debate and i dont feell offended by their views.
But it feels like a lot of the left wing people i come across just go into "racist twat! Fucking tory!" mode- like theyre incapable of seeing that situations are often a bit more complex than just this is right/thats wrong.

For example with Brexit, i voted remain and was gutted by the result - at the same time, i felt a bit irritated by fellow remainers "theyre all little englander tory twats" attitude to brexiters. Yeah, some of them are. Others just have a different POV, you know?

I was discussing this with my mum and she said back in her day (im assuming this means the 70s!) "conversation felt more nuanced".

It sometimes feels like a lot of left wing people just want to live in an echo chamber. I think you need to try and keep an open mind to different points of view. You clearly dont have to agree. But you can at least accept that people have different mindsets because they've had different experiences - it doesnt make them a worse person though.

I think you might be talking about this article. Which does not sat what you seem to think it says.

That article contains a lot of hard truths about the left's willingness to water down or suppress facts that disturb their utopian ideology. Gaby Hinsliff is one of the very few willing to examine the dangers inherent in her own biases.

"That article contains a lot of hard truths about the left's willingness to water down or suppress facts that disturb their utopian ideology." it also contains hard truths about the Right's non nuanced victim blaming culture, and refusal to consider complexities for fear of seeming "soft"

True - although since it's the left's utopianism that led to the Cologne attacks, and the right's hard-headness that would have prevented them, you'll forgive me for preferring the latter.

YANBU.

Common I thought the CDU were pretty centre right ?

There were 58 arrests made following the Cologne attacks, only 2 of whom were recent refugees.

How does the lefts utopia contribute to Cologne?

Oh and there were no articles in the Guardian blaming women, although your grasp of the facts seems tenuous.

There were 58 arrests made following the Cologne attacks, only 2 of whom were recent refugees.

The reality is that the majority were refugees, just not recent refugees from Iraq or Syria.

At least argue on merit.

The fact is that they were of BAME origin, there were two who were recent refugees. Other than that none of those arrested had arrived in 2015/2016 when Germany had its more relaxed policy to refugees.

and BTW, the German government in charge over all of that time, right wing,

If you are going to argue at least make it accurate.

right's hard-headness that would have prevented them, you'll forgive me for preferring the latter.

"Hard headness?" I can think of other words. Its usually the right wing capitalist war machine that displaces people in the first place making them refugees. Putting focus on the "bad eggs" is classic "othering." The right need to create enemies - divide and rule. Look at Tommy Robinson's lot - focus on muslim sex gangs say fuck all about white Christian sex offenders.

and BTW, the German government in charge over all of that time, right wing

The fact that a supposedly "right-wing" government would open its borders to millions of irregular migrants, in utter contempt of the electorate who voted for it, tells you just how pervasive left-wing ideology has become.

"The fact that a supposedly "right-wing" government would open its borders to millions of irregular migrants, in utter contempt of the electorate who voted for it, tells you just how pervasive left-wing ideology has become."
So now the Left is responsible for the behaviour of right wing governments? You couldn't, as they say, make it up!

I most certainly did not accuse anyone of being a Holocaust denier. As if! Pps are quite correct, it was an analogy (an an extreme one which I asked to be withdrawn). A poster was baldly stating that the Cologne attacks did not happen.

And that was what I was trying to say: some people, if they can't explain away an uncomfortable situation, flat out deny it.

If there is a terrorist attack, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same old posters will spring to life to say that we don't know yet that it's terror related, and if it is, it's all "our" fault anyway. There's such a lot of fingers in ears behaviour at best, and at worst some worryingly warped thinking. I could've swung for the poster who said we should have equal sympathy with the Manchester bomber as with his victims

Putting focus on the "bad eggs" is classic "othering"

You've actually got a point there, but probably not in the way you mean. Given that the majority of legal immigrants, both recent and otherwise, are no doubt decent folk who simply want to contribute and get on with their lives, I'd expect them to be only too glad to see criminals "othered"

Unless of course you intended to suggest we shouldn't mention these offences at all ... which might well suit the criminals and their apologists, but won't do much to solve the issues which arise

If you are going to argue at least make it accurate.

I am, 3 people where recent migrants from Syria/Iraq, 3 German nationals and the rest was made up of Algerian (25 people), Tunisian (3) or Moroccan (21).

Although they were not "recent" Refugees, they were in fact migrants.

I know many right wing people who are pro helping and accepting refugees. I also know many left wing people who are very much against it. Its far to unnuanced to argue that any wing would stop these things. There are many many points on which parties themselves are divided, which is normally quite healthy for democracy.

So now the Left is responsible for the behaviour of right wing governments? You couldn't, as they say, make it up!

I'm sorry if basic political concepts such as ideological capture are foreign to you. Here's an example from the other side. Tony Blair led a notionally left-wing Labour government that kept taxes low on corporations and the rich, introduced privatization into state services, and adopted an aggressive (to say the least!) foreign policy. That has been plausibly assessed as his ideological capture by the right.

See - not so hard now, is it?

Refugees and migrants aren't necessarily the same thing. Like I said, be accurate.

The whole point of labeling these people as refugees was to discredit the actions of the ( right wing) Merkel government in opening its doors, as only 3 of those arrested ( 2 in initial reports) were actually refugees from when this policy was introduced, and the others were "migrants" who had entered the country earlier under higher restrictions, those criticisms were unfounded. However it doesn't stop people inaccurately naming them as refugees and linking the two together.

I still haven't seen any evidence for the left wing denying that Cologne happened.

It seems to be one of these things that's made up by the right.

Yanbu and yes it’s like that on all sides. There are closed people all round.

I don’t know if it’s generational (I’m early 40s) but I find my generation either informed or not - and the uninformed aren’t interested and can’t have a nuanced discussion - and aren’t interested in one. If pressed to vote they rely on the feeling in the air around them.

My Parents’ generation - they are very left wing atheists - and were my age mid eighties and things were MUCH more polarised then - CND and Green Party got you pigeon holed in ‘loony left’. Ironically the children of my parents’ friends and relatives that were right wing, sometimes racist, and quite unresponsive to environmental issues - are often veering to the left of me nowadays - and the grandchildren (early 20s) of some of my relatives are vocal feminists and campaigners.

Reason to be cheerful in some way.

The fact that a supposedly "right-wing" government would open its borders to millions of irregular migrants, in utter contempt of the electorate who voted for it, tells you just how pervasive left-wing ideology has become.
Funniest thing I've read on the internet all year.

A poster was baldly stating that the Cologne attacks did not happen.
Said poster went on to acknowledge her mistake and apologised.
Said poster happens to have a Jewish grandfather who ended up in England having escaped the Russian pogroms.
But again, said poster did have the decency to apologise for her mistake...

Funniest thing I've read on the internet all year.

A pity your sense of humour hasn't helped you to formulate actual arguments to support your views or reject those of others

I quite like my views. I don't feel the need to formulate an argument for your benefit, particularly taking into consideration you don't really seem to bother either; just make a statement and finish with a childish passive aggressive remark. I imagine you sitting there smugly fizzing at the comments of others and thinking that you're oh so clever. It amuses me.

Wrong again - I made an argument that on the migration issue Merkel had been ideologically captured by the left, just as Tony Blair's government was captured on other policies by the right. Your refusal to formulate an argument to support or refute a single point has gone well past obstinacy into a tacit admission of incapacity...