DD wants to move university for the second time?!?!

[Bonnici]

DD went to Kings in London and disliked it, she dropped out after freshers and reapplied to universities and took a gap year.

Then she got into Cambridge, which we were all delighted as it was what she always wanted. She's just finished her first year there but now has dropped a bombshell.

She's applied for a transfer to UCL and has been accepted. She wants to go into second year there.

What the fuck do we say? I want her to feel supported but she just needs to get on with it. Plus UCL will take a hit for her employability?

More traditional old upper middle class

Which is the Sloane demographic. Although it’s true to say that not everyone who is trad upper mc is a Sloane. (This discussion seems to boil down to interpretation of terms).

Looking from a different perspective (not the academic/ university side)- I did a mid course transfer after first Year and there re implications socially which she might struggle with.

I ended up at halls in the new university in my second year. All my flat mates were freshers. I made friends but if she two years older and done the fresher 'experience' once already she might struggle to make friends.

I made a grand total of 0 friends on my course, because having been in seminars and lectures for the first year together, they had all made alliances. I sat by myself for 2 years of lectures.

It didn't bother me because I made such an awful choice of uni the first time and it was such a better fit for me (and I'm quite confident on my own). But if your dd has struggled with the social side of uni before it might be worth considering. It is difficult to find your place as a a new second year in a new university.

you say nowt - she's 20 and an adult

She is an adult. Albeit a young one, but she is an adult, let her find herself. Maybe she isn’t academic, maybe she is struggling at university or away from home, maybe she’s on the wrong course, maybe she’s being bullied, maybe she’s a wet lettuce who has no friends or maybe she’s just indecisive and doesn’t realise the implications of keep changing her mind.
Either way, it’s her choice.
She could drop out of university altogether, become a single mum, go to jail, marry a man older than her granddad or live in a squat and you don’t get to decide whether she does or doesn’t do any of this.

Finding the rah types overbearing

Hmm

There's people you dislike in jobs too, seems an odd reason

She might not like people at ucl

My question OP would be what’s her educational and mental health history like?

If she was at an academic school so she’s used to sustained pressure, and she’s never had any issues with anxiety or depression I’d be more likely to suggest she toughs it out.

If she was at a more relaxed school or if she’s ever had any mental health challenges, I’d more cautious. As you know, some students do cave under the pressure, and I wouldn’t want her to end up dropping out.

I know you probably don't want to tell us her college, OP, as it would be outing, but she has to socialise outside of her course and her college. I guarantee that Classics at UCL will be just as rah as Cambridge - it is the nature of the course, I'm afraid.

I completely agree with the PP who feel that Cambridge has generally better pastoral care than UCL etc. Her constant need to try something new suggests that her emotional health might not be great and she could very easily get lost at UCL.

Has she taken her Part 1? Is there a chance she might not have passed?

I don't think stopping her will do any good, it will cause resentment and may impact her degree.

My concern would be her ability to integrate and settle. It would seem she's unable to do that, and I think that would concern me.

However as said, I would support her, because forcing her to stay at Cambridge if she doesn't wish to could be very self defeating.

I wonder if Classics tends to attract public school students as, don’t you need A level Latin or Greek to study it at Cambridge? I know my best friend had to do his second choice subject at Cambridge because he couldn’t apply for classics without one of those at a level.

I think public / independent schools are a bit more likely to offer Latin and Greek at a level.

I’d let her move though, if she’s sure that’s what she wants op. Cambridge can be so full on I think. I know a couple of people who really suffered there - one attempted suicide and the other ended up in hospital as her eating disorder got completely out of hand and she was seriously unwell.

I’d keep encouraging your dd to talk about why she wants to leave and really listen to her. She’s obviously very bright, so I don’t imagine she will find herself unemployable in the near future.

You can do Classics at Cambridge without Latin or Greek A Level, or indeed any prior knowledge of either language, but it adds a year to the course.

Classics at Oxford is four years regardless of your prior study, but if you have no Latin or Greek at all you have to do a summer school.

You have to have A Level Latin or Greek for Classics at UCL.

I'd therefore hazard a guess that the classicists at UCL will have come almost exclusively from independent and state grammar schools; paradoxically, Oxbridge has wider access arrangements.

Is she sure that she really wants to be at university? I think you need to ask her because it isn’t the right thing for everyone. She would get open university credits for her completed first year (assuming that she passed) if she prefers to study part time or go back as a mature student. I know several very clever people who hated student life but did well after dropping out by either getting a job with training included (such as accountancy) or working their way up in a business.

If she wants to complete her degree at UCL she has to understand that there can be no further changes while you are financially supporting her. She has to stick with her choice this time.

Scipio - agree with you wholeheartedly. Some pp on this thread are seriously misinformed...a good degree in Classics, Philosophy, Anthropology et al from a top university is highly sought after in law, consulting, banking and many many other areas. I studied Economics at university, but am surrounded by colleagues who achieved a First or high 2:1 from Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, Durham etc in one of the aforementioned subjects.

Ah thanks for that @yippee. I was a bit hazy on the details.

I’m not surprised about UCL wanting one of those a levels. And I don’t think it would have an any more down to earth crowd studying there.

I still think the op should encourage her dd to talk about this though and not stand in her way if she really wants to move. Op says the dd has friends in London, so maybe that’s something she thinks she’s missing out on in Cambridge. If she’s still going to graduate at the same time then does it really matter? I doubt employers would sniff at a UCL degree. I don’t think moving is a big deal. But I’d want to really understand why she wants to.

What did she do during her gap year between Kings and Cambridge? Did she work or travel?

What are you talking about? UCL is a top tier UK university! Support your daughters decision, and don’t get so hung up about her dropping out of Cambridge.

I imagine a UCL classics degree would be very very very sloaney. I did an English degree there years ago but it was full of sloanes. I think it’s the nature of the type of some of the degrees rather than the uni itself. The majority of my friends were from my halls which was much more down to earth. I’d have struggled if going into second year and not meeting people in other ways I think. I loved London - the size and the amount to do and the independence. I’d have hated Cambridge but I’m not sure I’d have coped at UCL going straight into second year in a sloaney subject!!

It’s up to your DD though. All you can do is make sure she’s considered the potential pit falls. Neither of you need to worry about employability - it really comes down to where she’d be happiest.

I'd also say that unis poaching students after the first year is going to get increasingly common, our uni is thinking of doing it- they'd rather have 2 years fees than none at all and so inter-uni transfer is going to be a big thing.

Very interesting Yippee - thanks, I didn't know that about UCL demanding languages when Oxbridge don’t.

OP my DD just finished degree last week at Cambridge and even she would describe it as a marmite kind of place. It can feel quite isolated and students often talk about the 'Cambridge bubble' as it can feel insular and intense on occasions. DD has lovely friends but she really only found "her people" as she calls them in her second year. This has made a big difference to her experience and provided an important support system that she needed.

The fact that you have mentioned that your DD dislikes the pressure would make me think that a move may not be a bad thing, she wont have to resit the first year and she is already familiar with attending a uni in London. My DD also found the pressure very difficult and it has affected her mental health but she absolutely loved it at Cambridge and with excellent pastoral and peer support she really wanted to stay and has slogged her way through her final year.

Your DD sounds an impressive student to gain entry to three highly desirable universities. I'm sure she will do just as well if she transfers to UCL.

Thanks everyone for your input! I didn't expect to get over 100 replies so apologies I can't reply to everyone.

She's going to take a few weeks to mull things over. After a glass or two of valpolicella she's admit to feeling as if she's missing out on all the fun that London has to offer her youth. I've kindly reminded her that 2nd year at UCL won't be like their apparently rather laid back freshers year. But you're right, UCL is a great university and if that's what she feels she needs to get on with her degree then sure. I've come to the conclusion that I'll have to stick up for her against family pressure for leaving Cambridge if she does.

I've pointed out that she can possibly live with said friends if she decides to do a masters or other post graduate professional qualification. Plus she's going to sub-let a room in London this summer to get a bit of "grown up" life. She feels Cambridge is a bit too sheltered for her, which I suppose it is. I'm trying to show her she can have both.

Good for you OP. That’s exactly what she needs from her Mum.

Trying out London over the summer sounds great. But London in the summer is wonderful so she’ll probably love it!!

I had a lot of friends at Oxford...to me it looked like an extension of 6th form. Very safe but very oppressive. Everyone knowing your business. Very insular. I wanted to grow up and would have felt so frustrated. UCL is the opposite. There’s no campus, no insular feeling. Almost very unsafe. You’re on your own more or less. But if you can thrive off that and make friends with people you like, London is such an amazing place to be.

UCL is great overall. Experiencing London and getting a world class education, sounds excellent, I have happy memories.
The other students on my course were mostly lovely and normal, not 'rah' types. It wasn't a stereotypically posh degree like classics though. The extracurricular activities though...over a decade later I still want to punch the princess who laughed at my clarinet squeaking, they do that occasionally and I quit a martial art after a few lessons due to bitchiness...but this isn't a thread about my issues that's my experience, not data (see, I learned stuff )
It's very diverse, and I think with any large uni but especially somewhere non-campus-y, you can find your tribe but need to put the effort in to do that.
So I'd advise her to go for it. Glad you will defend her against pressure to stay at Cambridge, if she'd be miserable there, her happiness is more important and anyway UCL is just as much a world-class uni. Trying London out over the summer sounds like a great idea too.

Lots and lots of students do the campus/college uni, then London for Masters study combo, it's very very common and she'd meet a lot of people like that. I think she doesn't really have a good understanding of what having a great degree from Cambridge could do for her from the sounds of it. Plus Cambridge is an hour on the train from London, so she can drop down and see her friends whenever she likes.

I have to say I don't recognize the description of Oxford/Cambridge on these boards, it's hardly a small village and there's more state pupils now than public school ones, so whilst there can be some of that vibe, it's perfectly possible to make friends of all types and do normal UG activites, go to comedy clubs, weekends in London and so on whilst having world-class education.

It's not a hardship and if she makes out it is, I think there's something else going on that won't be solved by going to UCL. Also, all students are pressured in the second/third years these days, I teach at a RG but not Oxbridge uni and we have a lot of very anxious stressed students from wealthy backgrounds, unfortunately, especially in the third year so the idea you are going to have some idyll away from pressure/work is a false one as UCL really wouldn't be it (full of competitive high achievers!)

Does she know what she wants to do afterwards? Cambridge will still carry kudos with many employers and there are firms that only actively recruit from Oxbridge. It isn’t the be all and end all but she may have more options for certain careers by staying.

Also the demographic profile of her course is going to be one of the posher ones by the simple fact that many state schools do not offer the pre-entry subjects. That’s unlikely to change at other top unis either. Also joining in her second year will mean she has to try harder to form friendships as people will be in established groups.

She does really need to think through why she thinks UCL would make her happier in both the short and medium term.

TatianaLarina I was at Cambridge at the same time as you and you are talking shite with your “full of pissed Sloanes” comment..

It’s statements like that which put off otherwise excellent candidates from applying because they are afraid they won’t fit in socially. I didn’t meet a single person who was not there on academic merit (since “Sloane tends to imply “dim”) and the majority of my friends were not public school educated. Of those who were, many had got into the public schools on scholarships and could not have afforded them otherwise, or had poor parents who had sacrificed everything to pay the fees. My best mate’s Dad was a Turkish immigrant who ran a greasy spoon in Penge. I myself came from a Scottish state school that was pretty bog standard.