WTF is happening in London?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

In the last few days alone, there’s been a stabbing outside Liverpool St station, two moped muggers punched a women to the ground for her handbag and phone, and Michael McIntyre was forced out of his car and had his watch taken off him by another pair who smashed his window in whilst his child was in the back!

Even where I live in a pretty boring zone 4 suburb two teenage boys were stabbed a few streets away last week.

I know it’s never been the safest of cities but it feels like it’s got so much worse in the last year or so. What the hell is happening?

The New York comparison was true for two months and is no longer correct.

Police cuts definitely a part but I've worked with my neighbours and the local police and council officers on a drug problem in our street and been pretty impressed by them. But all they can do is move it to somewhere else. We desperately need to decriminalise hard drugs, treat them as a medical problem and prescribe them for free for users to consume in a monitored facility. Nothing else, no crackdowns, no hard core policing, can work.

I'd say mental health cuts also pretty important. And the teenagers convicted of an acid attack on a moped rider near me were all in care, so social care has something to answer for.

London has a very low unemployment rate so it's not a case of jobs being unavailable. But jobs tend to require lots of social skills - there is not much in the way of physical labour required. There is a gender problem here where teenage boys have not developed social skills that work beyond their little world where as teenage girls from the same backgrounds do. I see this at a charity I am involved in where the girls from my estate will busy themselves offering to paint nails or do face painting or sell cakes with guests of all ages and types at a fundraiser where as the boys can often barely make eye contact.

Also GCSEs have finished so all the 16 year olds are done with school. There is always an uptick in crime at this point.

Police cuts are just the last dam breaking

We have kids a few years older than my DC who gave absolutely nothing in their lives and no prospects. Sure Start has gone, austerity on every level means that their parents or parent has to work many hours to make ends meet - and will probably still be on benefits because they’re on minimum wage. Kids at my DCs Primary in central London hardly see their parents - they’re in breakfast club and after school club in the week and maybe with one parent or relative at weekends while the other works. One child in my DCs class (around 1km from the Thames ) had never seen the Thames when they went on a trip to the Globe last year (y 4). So they never got taken out, never went for a walk, never went over the river, never did anything - how could they. That child won’t be equipped for the world and it’s jot their parents’ fault!

The DCs school is able to make a difference only because they are exceptional - the teachers in this instance made time to make a visit to the river part of the trip.

It upsets me that we worry about our middle class selves in London when really it’s a symptom of wholesale failure of our kids. I won’t be stabbed or shot because I’m not 17 and in a gang.

Where I live. A small market town, cars are smashed up routinely and stolen in the High St in the evenings and at night It’s mostly teenage boys but the police do nothing at all.

I agree with the media ramping it up but there’s been a fair few non fatal stabbings in my area that only reach the local news.

A lot of police are leaving the job...my dh is one.its not a caring considerate employer,when placing all the new recruits in London,when mydh started,they gave no thought to where,so mydhwas travelling 2 and half hours to work ,right across London,where they could of placed him on his side of London and given him a 45 minute commute...other officers had the same problem,it didn't make sense....my dh often found after a shift in London he couldn't get home as trains had stopped..usually a police car would drop him...but many times they were busy ,and he spent the night in an all night cafegetting the first morning train home ,before being expected back in work at 12 am.so there is only so much the officers can take ,before they burn out...when my dh started in the police he was with 15 new officers ,over half have all left

Trust me it is not an increase in reporting in London it is real. We have seen an enormous upswing in stabbings and gunshot wounds in the hospital I work in.
The vast majority are young black men. This is not racism this is fact. The current thing is bagging...ie stabbing in such a way that the victim will need a stoma rather than killing them.
The sad thing is that most of them get kudos from being stabbed, they actually brag about it.
It is almost all gang turf stuff and the drug trade that goes with it.
What needs to be done is addressing the total disenfranchisement that has occurred by social reform and providing an alternative to the gang as an identity and a place of belonging.

I live in Central London, and I think it is disgusting, I no longer feel safe wearing my watch in public.

Police cuts don't cause youths to become thugs and criminals. If you think police catching these low lives will make them stop and reassess their lives I am afraid you're living in a bubble.
This ^^. It starts at home. If you're taught decent values then you're in with a chance. Encouragement - to work hard at school, to have interests that keep you occupied, to have decent friends....
You couldn't have enough police officers to be everywhere to prevent crime - if you did it would be like a police state. People need to take responsibility - for themselves and for their families. As long as they sit there blaming the government the situation will get worse not better.

"At what point in history was poverty less of a problem than it is now, and the gulf between rich and poor less pronounced?"

I can't work out if you're really clever and playing devil's advocate to try to enlighten people, or really completely clueless!

Obviously, there is a TON of data on income inequality that shows that the gap between the highest and lowest earners has grown dramatically since the late 1970s, compared to, say, the 1930s-60s. It should be noted that this is by no means a global trend happening in all countries, either.

Also just to add some balance to the doom and gloom.

London's schools still outperform most other regions (when levels of poverty are taken into account).

A poor kid at a school in London is much more likely to get 5 good gcses and go to university than a poor kid in Kent or Yorkshire etc.

So there are still really bright spots. The number of kids doing these crimes is small (still too high of course) but they tend to be prolific. Most teenagers are nice, drink less than previous generations, take fewer drugs than previous generations and get a whole lot less in terms of support for uni study or youth clubs etc.

People voted for austerity and cuts. You reap what you sow.

I agree completely with a poster up thread,
Austerity = society breakdown.

There is nothing for young adults living in more deprived areas. They have no hope so what’s the point. There is no reason for them to aim for anything better as it’s so out of reach and unrealistic for them.

There is no chance most of these young people will even own their own home (unless they get lucky with social housing) they have had a poor education which is partly down to children having children and never having a role model in their lives to teach them education is important or even just help with homework, but also very few really decent teachers being prepared to take their life in their hands and teach at these schools. Then there is the violence and intimidation at school!

Home life is pretty crap for them. Again no decent role models or if by a stroke of luck their have decent caring parents they then watch them struggle through hardship, swimming against the tide and floundering and they become completely disillusioned and also pretty resentful.

Gang culture being the main purpose of their lives as they see the higher up gang members with some sway and a little money and honestly believe that’s the only way for them to have any sort of power over their own lives.

TV, film and the internet don’t help! They glamorise violence and gang culture. Watching someone being brutally murdered/raped/abused in the media (whether real or acted) has become normalised and just isn’t shocking anymore. It’s not a massive leap from tv to real life especially if you have been brought up with little to no social or empathetic awareness. Just look at the likes of The Cheeky Blinders etc (I also lay some blame at much more hardcore and violent porn which is freely available on tube sites)

I honestly can’t see anyway of fixing these issues. It’s all become so huge a problem it’s beyond my comprehension how to solve it tbh.

Could it be argued that the majority of stabbings are committed by a certain demographic, in certain areas of London?

If your son got murdered tomorrow would the first thing you would need to say to the media be 'he wasn't in a gang'?
Because if one of my boys got killed me and their dad would have to tell the world that they were not involved in gangs before we deserved sympathy.
Except that a good proportion of onlookers would be saying 'yeah but they all say that don't they?'

I think you will find those involved in stabbings and drugs in areas where there is not a large black population are white.
Its not like Ipswich doesn't have violence and drug problems is it?

Also people think 'bet they were black' when they hear a report of a stabbing or shooting. Then they move on before they have even seen a photograph.

The one thing that the shooters, stabbers and muggers have in common is that they are overwhelmingly male.

Yet to point that out is 'NOT ALL MEN'
to point out they are all black is 'Just telling the truth'

Never mind blaming the police and austerity, where are the parents in all this. They should be bringing their children up to be respectful members of society. The trouble is we blame everyone but ourselves for the problems.

There will always be people set out on being violent, dealing drugs etc. Austerity doesn't create them. What is does create is an ever increasing pool of 'foot soldiers'. Young, disposable and easily influenced.

There was an (eventual) and justified outcry when young, mostly white, girls were groomed by older men to do their bidding.

No one seems to give much of a toss about the grooming of young black boys.

I am just in the process of changing jobs. I was based at Oxford Circus but now getting a job outside of London. The crime wasn't the only reason for the change but it was a big factor in my decision.

@MakeItStopNeville - No, London did not become as dangerous as New York. New York became as safe as London. Crime levels there have fallen rapidly. Of course, that’s not how it was reported.

raising teens in london has become quite terrifying. I worry my kids will innocently get caught up in something on their way home.

tweenageangst that is horrifying (bagging!) - what are these people like!

London is a toilet. Why would anyone pay stupidly priced rents/house prices, put up congested commutes to work, and bring up your children surrounded by knife and gun crime? Na thanks, I'd rather earn less money and live in relative safety.

' They should be bringing their children up to be respectful members of society. The trouble is we blame everyone but ourselves for the problems.'

Yeah, it's all our own personal faults - the rise of gig economy and zero hours contracts, the increase of unpaid 'internships' in order to enter certain fields of employment, shit private rental laws that lead to increase in housing instability, the widening gap between rich and poor. We just be respectful.

This may be too deep for a Wed morning or I may be looking back with rose tinted specs but I feel London has lost something whether it’s a spark or joy. Everyone seems brow beaten, perhaps Im tired of life!

I live in a London suburb (technically Essex) & the crime has shot up. It’s police cuts. Never see bobbies on the beat and as such crooks feel they can do whatever they want...!

As PP's have said, the contrast between rich and poor in some parts of London is becoming more obvious. Perhaps we need to avoid conspicious displays of expensive stuff.
I've got friends who live in Rio de Janero where there's extreme poverty in some areas. After staying with them I got into the habit of removing jewellery/watch before going into town, also avoiding carrying anything expensive looking that could be easily grabbed.

The area I live in has been in the news regularly for violence. at least local. We have MPs from both parties covering the area- neither Labour or Tory bothered. I've lived here for 20 yrs and bobbies were never two a penny on the street here to act as a deterrent. It's not even clear the people responsible for the violence are from this area. I think the reasons must be more complex than cuts to the force alone but frankly - no idea.

in my town, the 17 year old stabbed to death by a 41 year old man in broad daylight at the weekend was murdered by ‘elders’ from one gang going after a rival gang over drugs.

these ‘gangs’ are not just from housing estates. it isn’t the travellers, who are traditionally blamed for any sort of trouble. some of them are in affluent, white, middle-class areas. it is so ridiculous and pointless and wrong. it’s fucking Suffolk, not Compton, and a child was murdered by a grown man in the street.

kids here either have no aspirations, or they think they are entitled to a rolex and £800 trainers. working for £7 an hour is seen as something that nobody should be made to endure.

i don’t know what the answer is. early intervention and education is key. provision for young people leaving care is non-existent. removing young people from homes where neglect is routine can promote the sense of security and family that is only available to them from peers and gangs.

the police need more money, in order to put more visible policing of neighbourhoods as a priority. the care system needs more money, to support families, and break the cycle of poverty and crime that is daily life for some. schools need more money, the NHS needs more money, provision of social housing needs more money...if only there was a magic money tree, eh?