WTF is happening in London?!

[AngeloMysterioso]

In the last few days alone, there’s been a stabbing outside Liverpool St station, two moped muggers punched a women to the ground for her handbag and phone, and Michael McIntyre was forced out of his car and had his watch taken off him by another pair who smashed his window in whilst his child was in the back!

Even where I live in a pretty boring zone 4 suburb two teenage boys were stabbed a few streets away last week.

I know it’s never been the safest of cities but it feels like it’s got so much worse in the last year or so. What the hell is happening?

Very good point Mrs DV.: all fur coats and no knickers! Although I would say, I’m reasonably affluent and I hated all the cuts of grass roots services for young people. Once again, I think a lot of it is the obsession with those in public life to be seen to make their mark. There are too many narcissistic people who can’t see beyond their latest vanity project and can’t empathise with what people actually need.

That;s what I meant by there being a very Haves and Have Not society at the moment. Some people are unspeakably rich and others are literally starving.

Of course crime will rise.

It all starts at home though.

Thread after thread here about poor DCs being unhappy because they are made to follow the school rules and the parents are raring to go and pick a fight with the school.

So it starts and we can all see where it ends.

I do agree that to an extent it starts either in the immediate home or at least in friendship/school circles.

I agree police cuts won’t have helped but even with a reduced chance of being caught the majority of teenagers aren’t going out smashing car windows with hammers to steal watches. The majority are actually decent young people.

Police cuts perhaps have something to do with it, but I think there are other factors involved too.

There does seem to have been a global uptick in violent crime over the past three years across much of the world--developed and developing countries, and regardless of whether more or less is being spent on policing.

You cannot dismiss massive population increase - even by the law of basic probablity. Yes cuts to everything but immigration is a huge factor - no sense of community any more.

Plus all other reasons previously mentioned.

People will do whatever they can if there are no consequences.

Read the article in today’s Guardian on-line - Somali drug gangs in Waltham Forest - has everything - child slavery/violence isn’t immigration ‘beneficial’?

Chardonnay that's a massive simplification. You surely don't imagine that this is the real issue at hand?? It's a complex, multi layered thing. Not something that's down to whingey parents!

Didn't London officially become more dangerous than NY a few months ago? I live in NY and genuinely feel safer walking the streets here than when I'm back home in London.

No, it didn't. For one brief period it may have had a higher homicide rate: there were 15 homicides in London in February against 14 in New York, and in March there were 23 in London against 22 in NY. However, that was a statistical blip; in January, for instance, there were 8 in London against 18 in NY. In 2017, the homicide rate per 100,000 people was 1.2 in London, while in NY it was 3.4 - almost three times as much. In April and May 2018, normal service resumed with higher homicide rates in NY. The figures aren't directly comparable in any event, because London includes infanticide and negligent manslaughter in its homicide rates, whilst NY doesn't.

I'm glad you feel safe, but it's illusory.

Racist bollocks painted.

Youth centres have been closed, PCSO numbers have been cut, austerity is biting communities hard.

Basically, a shit ton of choices right now can be boiled down to one question: do we want to invest in our public sector and live in a nice country where the economy thrives because of infrastructure spending stimulus, or do we want to continue to disinvest and live in an increasingly violent, polarised nation where everything is falling apart?

Yes cuts to everything but immigration is a huge factor - no sense of community any more
Nonsense.

London has always had a high level of immigration.
Cuts to services cause the breakdown in community.
When you tell people if they don't accept a one bedroom flat in Manchester they will be discharged from housing you don't foster community, you destroy it.

Also I think NY serious crime is at an historical low.

Whilst I agree that austerity and police cuts play an important role, the lack of personal responsibility also is very relevant. In my city, a lot of the young people in certain areas have parents who let them do whatever they want, they lie to the police for the kids which shows the youths that they don't need to worry about the police or have any respect for them.
Where I work (with these families every day), a high proportion smoke a LOT of cannabis and see nothing wrong with smoking it on the street, around small children, while driving, etc. The cannabis around nowadays tends to be disproportionately high in THC which in turn causes mental health problems, and psychosis. Combined with a disenfranchised youth who has no respect for anyone, and no fear of the police or consequences, and no future plans, and that's when they can turn more feral.

Sorry if any of that makes little sense, I'm walking to work and have just realised I can't think and walk at the same time 😊

I don't think that it's just the rich/poor problem. There's always been rich and poor, I think it's poor parenting and just bad teenagers acting tough. Something they've always done, and did in the 60s when I grew up (skinheads etc). And partly due to an influx of foreign criminals/foreigners, so that we don't necessarily know our neighbour or speak the same language. Neighbourhoods can become divided.

Criminality is a life style choice for some. So there is a market for rolexs, guns, knives, whatever. And using social mobile phones you can track where police or houseowners or anyone is making crime easier.

I do think bringing back youth clubs/sports clubs would make a big difference to the behaviour of teenage boys.

Sorry, I should have said it's how it starts but of course it's just one of the many factors.

But it seems to be happening more and more.

If I ever got in trouble in school my parents default setting was to tell me rules are rules and that's that.

Seems things have changed considerably now.

All of the reasons given above - poverty, inequality, police cuts etc apply across the board, yet women don't feel the need to stab and rob people.

I always wonder about the young criminals sisters. They had the same childhood but mostly don't hurt others.

When you get a gulf between rich and poor, society starts to fray at the edges.

Nothing will be until those at the very top shifted out for more empathetic people with more down to earth experiences.

In the meantime we get people “blaming the parents” etc etc.

You can’t get away from the fact that there is always criminality. But you can do something to reduce it happening. That requires a combination of stick (a decent police force and justice system) plus carrot (a decent standard of living which lifts people out of a life of crime etc etc)

Instead we waste time pointing the fingers at each other (eg feckless parents etc ) when we have a bigger problem.

I don't think police cuts can be blamed. This behaviour is not ok whether there is police on the streets or not.

Social issues... where are the parents? What morals are these thugs having instilled in them growing up?

I think this is the problem for most.

Only yesterday there was yet another a thread about a child who had been punished by his teacher for being disobedient and rude. The parent was planning to go up to the school. Lots of people suggested she complain. Only year 4, but you know, the lack of respect for authority starts somewhere. Sadly it's usually by the parents.

Yet again, a thread on Mumsnet where people appear to have had absolutely NO social science education whatsoever.

my parents are immigrants as were the majority of our neighbours & parents of my school friends. And yes crime existed but muggings were not so violent & as a teen if you stayed away from drugs & certain areas after dark crime would rarely cross your path.

Could it be argued that the majority of stabbings are committed by a certain demographic, in certain areas of London?

As a Londoner it's terrifying of course (and very sad) but it's not as if it's completely lawless here.

At what point in history was poverty less of a problem than it is now, and the gulf between rich and poor less pronounced?

While I agree police cuts, youth club closures and the like are all having a detrimental effect on our city (I live on zone 2/3 border), let's put these few reported incidents in the context of the 10 million who live here for the most part very peacefully and acknowledge that a certain inflammatory daily newspaper is ramping it up because it wants to get its #LawlessLondon hashtag trending.

Could it be argued that the majority of stabbings are committed by a certain demographic, in certain areas of London?

Well there is the narrative that if a young black male is the victim then he was probably involved in a life of crime so it’s his own fault. Not always true & the likely reason there is currently more press attention is the fact more “innocent” people are getting hurt.