...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

That's true, @bluedabadeedabadoo our DD1 went straight into care but she had a head injury when with her foster carers during her first year and needs glasses and hearing aids. She also has SPD and Attachment Disorder. She has violent meltdowns. We're waiting for therapy through Post Adoption Support, and we've been referred by the GP for a proper assessment.

But DD2 doesn't have those problems, she has lots of friends and is a feisty character, I'm sure she'll be fine.

However, it's not always down to adoption. My DNephew, who is a birth child, has anger issues, and has meltdowns like my DD1. He's being assessed for SEN. Whereas his little brother, who is adopted, doesn't appear to have any issues at all. (Though it was a foster to adopt, he came to live with my DSis and DBIL at 3 days old.)

It's not black and white, all children need to be treated as individuals.

You're so right, @SerenDippitty though I kept hearing stories about women this happened to. The truth is, you're meant to stop TTC when approved to adopt. Actually, the last thing I'd have wanted after adopting would have been to get pregnant. (Not that it would have happened in my case.)

@earthwindnfiya yep it's us pesky IVF parents who are over populating the plant - glad someone has finally caught us out. Our planned, longed for and usually small families (I thought I would have 2 or 3 before we discovered we have fertility issues but only have one) are responsible for all the world's woes. I mean for years we got away with it because at first glance people assume the problem is in developing countries where populations are rising fast rather than the wealthy developed countries who can offer free IVF to their citizens, or maybe the Catholic church that condems IVF but also condems birth control. Obviously my one child is far more damaging to the environment that those of people who through choice, accident or whatever have large families or as he wasn't funded by the NHS does he not get to be single handedly responsible for the pollution of other bigger families?

seren they both come hang in hand actually and who are you to judge

I don't think IVF, gender reassignment, facial feminisation or cosmetic procedures should be funded as things stand

I can not even believe ivf is being grouped in with these. What a knob!

*Whattheactualfuckmate

serenthey both come hang in hand actually and who are you to judge*

I chose not to adopt after IVF partly because I didn't think I would be doing it for the right reasons. Not that I have to justify that choice to anyone.

ITs actually the government that is screwing over the NHS not any one on this thread. Yet they always get the little people squabbling over the pittence they hand back to the public

This is the alternative to a benefits thread

Why does nhs fund things where people eat crap food, get obese and then have medical problems. Or fund treatments for smoking when it is obvious smoking harms
I would rather my nhs concentrate in the good and not those who are in for smoking conditions and are outside ... smoking

This is such a tough one to answer with no real right or wrong answer. I can see both sides and agree with points on both sides.

However, I think that whatever the NHS decides, whether IVF is to be funded or not, I think it should be the same nationally. Some places get one round, some get three. Some couples are declined and some accepted on what seem quite arbitrary grounds. It should be fair for everyone.

With the mental health angle - people think it's ok to have IVF because no children impacts negatively on people's mental health. People don't think people should get cosmetic surgery because how they look is impacting on their mental health. This argument also has the additional layer of "it's ok for burns victims/people who have had to have mastectomies to have cosmetic surgery". It's really complicated.

Money - if you can't afford IVF you can't afford a child. As people have mentioned it's a huge lump sum to stump up. People can and do save over a number of years though. In that time they could have their NHS IVF. If it doesn't work, they're working on the savings.

I'm not really arsed of you weirdly want to deny someone elses infertility and ivf experience . It is bloody odd though

Not as bloody odd as somebody who claims they have a friend who spent £40k on IUI without being referred for IVF and piously lectures the NHS about how it shouldn’t be giving out IVF willy nilly without trying other things first including other ‘more appropriate’ treatment then expects other people to believe that they know anything more about fertility treatment than can be gleaned from a couple of articles on the Daily Mail.

You are fooling nobody. £40k spent on IUI without trying IVF. 😂😂😂 What a joke you are. Did you honestly expect anybody to believe that?

Honestly, anybody who has had fertility treatment would read that and know instantly that you are lying about having any knowledge or experience of IVF.

By the way hug. You might be interested to know that the most IUI cycles that can be undertaken is 9. And that is extremely unusual as clinical advice is to move to IVF after 3 in the U.K.

Even if you did know a couple who had 9 cycles, it costs just north of £1k per cycle. So even if they’d gone to a really expensive clinic and paid over the odds you’d be looking at £18k as the absolute outside max spent on IUI.

As I said. If you tell lies about things you don’t know much about it is very obvious.

Danci - you beat me to it.

seren good for you. That’s your choice and no you don’t have to justify it - just like no one else on this thread has to justify them self to you and why they go through ivf or adoption.

@whattheactualfuck I wasn’t aware that I had asked anyone to justify their own choices.

danci are you faking your infertility so you think someone else is?

wtf is your problem danci? I unlike you am not some weirdo stalker of people who question every ounce of what my friends say. if they say it's cost them 40k over 4 years of trying and now they have a baby after ivf u haven't found the time nor the need to question it. get a life woman!

Thank you to all the posters who've offered kindness and compassion on this thread, including those who respectfully disagree, but have put their points across with kindness and respect.

@AgathaMystery thank you for your kind words. I feel very very passionately about discussing these issues, as there is so much ignorance, the only way we can hope to challenge ignorance is by talking about them openly and honestly

@sammylou1 how lovely to hear from you. I am glad that we don't have the thread insofar as it's because most / all of you have all gone on to have successful treatment and don't need to be on the infertility boards, and can be on the parenting boards instead!

The reason I'm writing the book is because of my experience on the infertility boards in fact.

1 in 7 couples experience infertility - but amongst these are those whose journeys can be longer, more challenging, and more unsuccessful than others. And the hidden community of women supporting each other through these journeys is full of incredible stories - stories that don’t get told, because everyone only wants to hear about the success stories.

So much of the narrative around infertility is stories of hope, and staying positive, and 'it'll all be worth it when you have your baby in your arms'. But not everyone does get there. And what so so many women have said is that what they really needed wasn't false positivity, but to hear someone acknowledge that yes, it's really really shit. And really really unfair. And really really gruelling. And that it's very possible that you won't get there. But that eventually YOU WILL BE OK, even if things didn't turn out how you hoped they would.

So it's about giving a platform to that narrative. For women to share their stories, the black humour and the ridiculousness of the crazy shit you end up doing, and a celebration of the hidden community of women supporting each other through a living nightmare.

I actually did take @surferjet comments as a compliment - I do very much hope to inject humour into these discussions, and that's certainly what I hope to bring to the book

I would absolutely love it if the incredible women on this thread (and others) who've experienced the horror of infertility would be willing to share (anonymously) their stories. I want people in our shoes to know they are not alone - and hopefully to try and raise awareness of the real experience of infertility, in the hope that maybe we'll face less ignorance and more compassion and understanding

@Bananafish I am looking forward to reading your book.

For people that are without any child and meet the criteria in their borough, and are genuinely infertile and want children, yes it should be funded /assisted as their is a medical 'fault' with them
I don't agree that couples who already have kids should get it.

I'm sure people will disagree, that's fine. I however disagree the NHS should fund slimming programmes and for fat people to have gastric bands etc.

@Bananafish81 your book sounds great. I am an infertility survivor, my story resulted in no diagnosis, a divorce and no baby. It’s been beyond shite and even with a couple of years behind me now I still struggle to talk to people about it because, quite simply, no one understands.

BananaFish81

"She wasn't bitter. She was sad, though. But it was a hopeful kind of sad. The kind of sad that just takes time."
Stephen Chbosky, The Perks of Being a Wallflower

That's how it feels for me, it's been very healing to hear how others on MN feel, and I'd love to read your book.

I funded my own unsuccessful IVF to the tune of £25k, adopted two ‘hard to place’ siblings, get no child benefit or tax credits, am really, really fat and drink far too much.

Do I win some kind of thread prize?

to all that need them. It sucks.

tldr, unfortunately no prize, but if it was up to me you would get one.

hugit, four years of trying and £40k worth of IUI? Well with the 2 years (maybe one if they were lucky) they have to try plus the months worth of tests they must have had about 2 or 3 cycles of IUI per month at that cost. And that would be a medical miracle.

When you are in a hole stop digging.

I think your argument is with the women who went through this awful 4 years and not me?! honestly get a hobby, your obsession with me is weird!