...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

I'm assuming that if the couple was a same sex couple that they did IUI from the outset, because obvs they couldn't TTC naturally - so doing that many IUI is basically the same as TTC naturally every month. And possibly trying IUI with more than one partner? Madness to do that many given the cost, rather than go to IVF sooner, but plausible if it's two women having treatment

yes banana.. and while a few of us were they obviously had their own reason for not trying ivf earlier

I tend towards YANBU OP.

I don't know how much of my money goes to IVF, but honestly I like the fact that we have a way that shares the burden of infertility throughout society, because as a mum of two, it breaks my heart to think of people not getting that chance, it is not a need but my god what a hole it leaves for some people, more than a broken arm or a slipped disc.

Would all the posters saying ivf should not be available on the NHS say this out loud to the faces of a couple who needed it?

It's not right to trivialise the desire for a child as a want. Obviously it's not a need like food or water, you don't need a child to stay alive. But it's not a want like you might want a holiday or a night out. For someone who wants a child, it's a primal urge that can't be casually set aside as a lifestyle choice. Similarly to the desire for a sexual partner, no you don't need sex to stay alive, but the desire to have a mate is something that can't be dismissed as just a want.

I think I am actually shocked at some of the responses on here and really wish I hadn't looked. We are adopting, we decided not to go down the medical route, for our own reasons. But having a biological child and adopting are completely different motivations, we had to take six months out to get our heads around the trauma that looked after children often have. Simply saying infertile couples should adopt is bloody hogwash. If that is the case, then no one should be allowed to conceive until all the children in care have their forever homes.

But believe me, not everyone would even make it through the process.

We have researched, been on training courses and had to prove ourselves beyond anything you would believe that we would make suitable parents, we have been proded and poked and far more strangers than I would like to think about know all of our (very) personal history. Please don't spout crap that infertile couples should adopt before the NHS pay for IVF. Infertility is crushing when you desperately want your own child. Of course couples should get help along that journey if they choose it, the argument works both ways, if you don't fund IVF, then don't fund maternity care...after all, child bearing is a choice according to many on here. In my opinion wanting a child is a most primal need.

@Bananafish i would absolutely love to read your book. While I am incredibly fortunate to now have my longed for babies (IVF paid for by the NHS in case anyone is wondering) I will never forget the feelings of hopelessness and genuine exasperation when someone said 'don't worry, you'll get there in the end' when all I was thinking was 'but you CANT know that'

I would be honoured to write about my experience for you if you would be able to use it. Just pm me if so, but no offence will be taken if not :)

So much ignorance it’s astounding.

How many of you had your children at private hospitals? You know, so you didn’t drain the NHS.

You have to go through infertility to understand it. The pain, the sadness, the expense, the putting your life on hold ‘just in case’.

What makes you more deserving of a child than someone who needs assistance to conceive. Of course it’s not a right, no one thinks it is. But it’s a desire and a selfish need that anyone wanting a family has.

How can 9 cycles of IUI be the most you can have when a same sex couple had to have tried 12 cycles of IUI before being referred for IVF?

That would be because it’s six rounds of IUI.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/parenting-rights/donor-insemination-and-fertility-treatment-0

Then you would get the same funding as opposite sex couples which in some areas would entitle you to three more rounds of IUI (which makes nine) plus one round of IVF in some areas one round of IVF and in others two or three or in some areas nothing at all.

The NICE website says 12 cycles of artificial insemination.

I have worn glasses since I was three years old. Since becoming an adult, these have been purchased without any NHS assistance.

I am as good as blind without my glasses. Plus my prescription changes constantly. I need new glasses nearly every year so I can function. My prescription is complicated - buying online is not an option. To avoid really heavy thick glasses I need high index lenses - costing £500 a pair. I cannot have laser surgery either.

I must have spent the equivalent of several rounds of IVF on glasses in my lifetime.

Is that fair?

Exactly, Gatecrasher.

I saw some report today that people are waiting so long for ophthalmic surgery these days, they are going blind before they get it.

Why funding for IVF should trump people going blind is beyond me.

You’re confusing artificial insemination with IUI.

The NICE website currently says you need six rounds of that before moving on to IUI or IVF as offered in the same way it will be offered to opposite sex couples in the same area.

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg156/ifp/chapter/intrauterine-insemination

You may be offered IUI if:

you are in a same‑sex relationship and have not become pregnant after 6 cycles of artificial insemination.

You need to consider as well that NICE guidelines are recommendations which give maximums for NHS treatment and in the vast majority of cases the NHS will offer less than NICE recommends both to same sex and heterosexual couples and they are guidelines not rules. It’s not saying you must have these treatments but that it is best practice.

In reality most trusts offer less than NICE recommend, it is a suggestion for number of treatments, not a rule.

Treatments are different for heterosexual and same sex couples anyway because same sex couples have tried naturally for at least one year normally two. IUI doesn’t continue after 9 cycles for heterosexual couples because at that point the pregnancy rate falls so unacceptably low it is clinically unjustified to continue. There is quite a bit of research out there confirming that if you care to google it.

@AppleFox I’m so sorry, it’s just really really shit isn’t it. I would be interested to read your blog

@bananafish81 maybe a non medical reason refers to people like me who are unexplained. Maybe we are the undeserving infertiles who just didn’t try hard enough.

Unexplained of course does not mean there is no physiological reason- I have a strong suspicion I may have endometriosis but even if I don’t- it just means they haven’t found the reason yet, and may not have the tests available to find it.

YABU. Do we really want to continue farther down this road of denying each other funding and treatment that we want and need only for the Tory MPs to funnel more public money into their big businesses?

EarlGreyT Thu 07-Jun-18 07:25:39
@DontMentionTheWar

Really sorry for the loss of your sister and all that you’ve been through. You’ve written a fantastic post. I wish people on here would actually read these posts about why adoption is not a solution for infertility rather than continue to harp on about why we should all “just” (because it’s always prefaced with a just) adopt.

Many thanks for such a lovely post @EarlGreyT. I agree and I think it's partly because people's idea of adoption is based on what it was like years ago when people took home a baby and were allowed to forget any life the baby had before they arrived with their 'new' family. Nowadays it is very different, there is no 'clean break' and the bond between the child and their birth family is not severed like it used to be.

I recently applied to have access to my adoption records. The social worker I spoke to said that at the moment her job is usually very rewarding as she deals with people who were adopted in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. In general, people from those decades were adopted because their mother couldn't afford to keep them as they had no support and because of the social stigma attached to being an unmarried mother. This means that when they open their files they usually find that their mother loved them and did not want them to be adopted, they just didn't have any choice - and this brings the adoptees comfort. She then said that in the not-too-distant future she will find another job as the people who come to access their files then will usually have to read such awful stories of their neglect and abuse that it will just be too upsetting to watch them read about it. Nowadays, children are rarely removed from their families unless something is seriously wrong and there are few babies around for adoption as women can afford to keep their children when they want them and, if they don't want them, they have access to abortions.

Even when there isn't neglect or abuse, being adopted is not easy. I am tough and pragmatic but it was very difficult to ignore the identity issues that come with being rejected by one family and not being linked by blood to the family you live with. Simple things like not looking like your relatives and not having the same natural gifts or interests as them can set you apart. It's not easy. Dealing with a child experiencing these things is not easy either and takes adoptive parents that are truly committed to it and understanding of what the child feels.

I also wish I hadn't read some of these cruel and ignorant responses.

OP yes you are what you say you are not. Plus many other ignorant and narcissistic things.

YADBU for all the reasons that others have given who have put them more eloquently than I ever could. My answers would be punctuated with the C word. And even more so because NHS IVF gave me my wonderful son. Have since spent over £20k trying to give him a sibling.

I recognise so many names here from the infertility board 😘

I find it very upsetting that PP want the thread to be removed because they have read opinions they do not like.

Some opinions have been unpleasant in my opinion, but we don’t live in a fascist regime - people are entitled to their opinion, and to voice it, however unpleasant the majority thinks it is. Trying to shut down or stifle people isn’t the right attitude to have.

@danci my doctor is not interested in my private arrangement of artificial insemination, so is my doctor wrong for not helping?