...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

The current postcode lottery style system is very unfair.

I had to have IVF for infertility, I was under 30, in good health, in a good/stable relationship - we had no NHS funding and struggled to pay for IVF ourselves as we were both in low income jobs. Thank goodness I conceived first time as we would never have been able to afford another attempt, it cost us £7,000.

My boss who has a professional job and earns ££££££ and already had one child from a previous relationship had 2 fully funded rounds of IVF simply because she lived in a different area to me. How is that fair?

I think at least one round of IVF should be funded for everyone who needs it (unless they already have a child) regardless of where they live.

Being childless through infertility when you long for a child is very much a medical condition. I ended up on antidressents and my OH was diagnosed with a mental health condition brought on by our inability to conceive and the devastating blow of being told that the NHS would not help us because we lived in the wrong borough.

If you have not gone through infertility you really have no idea how awful it is, families are everywhere and you end up feeling like an outsider. I couldn't even go shopping without bursting into tears the need for a child completely took me over.

Mind you if you are worrying about survival of the fittest and only passing down strong genes very large sections of the NHS could be removed. I can only imagine people spouting this stuff haven't actually thought through all of the treatments and medical interventions that would be removed if this was implemented. I'm pretty sure the UK population doesn't want a health service funded on any one of child bearing age or below not being given any treatment that would allow them to survive and pass their faulty genetic material on when the more appropriate outcome of death was available.

Yes, what were you telling someone on the 28th of May hug? That your friends had spent £40k on IUI then got pregnant first time with IVF and wished that they hadn’t bothered.

Even though any clinician who was prepared to put a couple through the 20 or so rounds IUI that sort of money would be the minimum for without referring for IVF would be struck off for medical and fininacial malpractice.

The problem with making things up about things you don’t know anything about hugs is that you won’t be very convincing.

sometimes I like to just pay for ivf for fun but not actually use it .. said no1 ever

alright stalker.. they were lesbians and so continuing with iui was deemed fine considering their sperm samples were tested and obviously high quality. just doesnt have great odds of working does it!

Ok, so I tried to read the full thread just to understand the full extent of the ignorance and cruelty on show but couldn't get past page 6.

My two beautiful, healthy, intelligent children are the result of NHS funded IVF. They will grow up be amazing people, contributing to society, paying their taxes and adding value to the world. Apparently though they shouldn't exist because my body had the wrong type of malfunction.

If I'd needed life-saving cancer treatment before I could go on an conceive them naturally then that would be fine of course because that wouldn't be my fault.

How is it ok to blame NHS funding shortages on such a specific section of society? Why should infertile couples simply have to get on with it so that others can receive care for alcohol, diet, smoking related illnesses?

I am shocked and saddened by this thread.

I don't think IVF, gender reassignment, facial feminisation or cosmetic procedures should be funded as things stand
I think if we want an NHS that will fund these things then we must pay more taxes.
The NHS funds so many things now compared to 50 or even 30 years ago.

I haven't read the whole thread. I have a 3 year old son who is the result of donor egg ivf. This is not because either myself or my husband is infertile, its because I have an undiagnosed genetic condition that has caused me a lifetime of surgery, poking and prodding by doctors etc. We could have had our own child but the doctors advised that it was 50 50 whether the child would inherit my condition and because they cannot diagnose it, they couldn't say how badly a child would be affected.

We decided to use a donor egg an have ivf to have a hopefully healthy child that would not cost the NHS thousands like I have done during my life time. I am not saying that children with disabilities have no value but as someone who has had significant issues throughout my life, I did not want that for my child. I was a day too old to have NHS treatment on the day I was referred for IVF. Our son cost us £10k to have. I think what is unfair is the postcode lottery. I would also like to add that until you have walked a mile in someone's shoes, you have no right to judge them.

if you are unable to do so maybe consider a child that has already been brought into this world and needs a home

Just like you haven't?

It's not true to say that children are not placed with infertile couples. I'm infertile and I have adopted children. But you have to have come to terms with the fact that you weren't able to have birth children. And if you haven't come to terms with it, they expect you to either wait a year and then apply again. If you can't do that, then you won't get past panel.

It's not the case that you can't adopt babies at all. They do foster to adopt now, and my DSis and DBIL managed it, their youngest DS came to them as a baby. But you have to be prepared for the baby to potentially go back to the birth family.

We adopted our DDs at 1 (they're 3 years apart), and they both went straight into foster care, they weren't ever victims of neglect. But the transition was tough in both cases.

cutebaba that’s a lovely story. We have 1 IUI baby and 2 IVF (we paid for the IVF, so don’t worry pearl clutchers, I only have one cheapie NHS baby single handedly destroying the environment).

We’re trying for another one next year but I have 15 embryos left and am definitely not going to be using all of them no matter what happens. I am not allowed to donate them to strangers as I was a month too old at collection which seems silly. I was seriously discussing donating them to a friend who is having cancer treatment as you are allowed to go past the dates for non-stranger donation and her husband also has issues.

Sadly she is not now expected to recover though.

The more this thread goes on the more I lean in the other direction to my opening post, so thank you to dozens of eloquent and helpful posters for rationally explaining the issues to me and helping me change my mind to some extent. Many people have said it's an emotive subject, and it is, so please try to keep posts respectful of those who are hurting deeply - there's a huge difference between disagreeing with someone's perspective and making offensive comments. And whilst I think controversial debate is a good thing (proven by having started this thread I guess...) I think we should draw a line under the 'survival of the fittest'/thinly veiled eugenics chat... it's not okay.

Moo it is great that you have changed your mind to some extent but the problem with starting this thread is that you have given some people an opportunity to express some disgusting opinions.

Would you really have started a thread asking why fat people are treated on the NHS? Or why we don't let smokers die if they get lung cancer? I suspect not, so why is it ok to trample over the feelings of people who have had to cope with infertility?

Some of the hurtful things that have been said here will stay with people for a very long time.

danci thank you x

I’m torn on this, but it does make me think of all the poor children who are in care waiting for their forever families. Maybe there would be less of them waiting if IVF wasn’t funded?

TitsAlina and co READ THE THREAD not even all of it, just a page or two would do it.

"I’m torn on this, but it does make me think of all the poor children who are in care waiting for their forever families. Maybe there would be less of them waiting if IVF wasn’t funded?"

OK so why doesn't the government create a law that says the first child should come from the care system. Only once you have done this can you have a child of your own????? Would that make it fair???

Do you think adopting a child is like picking one off the shelf? Astonishingly ignorant comment to make

wow the bullying on this thread by supposedly suitable parents ..

I’m torn on this, but it does make me think of all the poor children who are in care waiting for their forever families. Maybe there would be less of them waiting if IVF wasn’t funded

In that case should we limit fertile parents from expanding their family until they adopt?

Adopting a child is absolutely nothing like having your own and there should not be any comparison. There are so many hurdles, bumps in the road and additional difficulties that need to be given consideration that many people would not be able to deal with. Even a baby who has gone straight into care from birth is not completely 'risk free' as there could be (and quite frequently are) other risks that need careful consideration such as alcohol or drug use in pregnancy, parental mental health or leaning issues which could be genetic, unknown paternity.
There are so many pre-requisites of adopters. Forcing people to adopt rather than seek attempts to conceive biologically won't help anyone as it is likely that they won't be seeking to adopt for the right reasons and then will not be approved. Where will that leave them?

TitsalinaBumsquat how many parents who have easily conceived their children are told they should have adopted a ‘poor child in care’ instead? Several women I know are currently pregnant with their second or third do you think they should have used contraception and adopted a child from care instead?

I do honestly believe that you can love an adopted child in the same way that you can love a biological child, but the parental experience may be very different (not necessarily bad but different)

I'm on a forum with a lady who adopted a 7 month old girl after years of infertility. That little girl went into a loving foster family straight from birth and then to adopted family. Mum unexpectedly fell pregnant less than a year after the adoption.

Mum totally loves both children the same, but see's a fundamental difference between how both children are growing up. Adopted daughter is currently receiving SEN support. She has known no neglect or abuse whatsoever. I think we totally underestimate the effects that poor lifestyle drug/drink abuse can have during pregnancy.

Adoption is such a worthwhile thing to do but it's isn't the easy option and isn't for everyone. It's certainly not a consolation prize for infertility.

Adoption isn't and shouldn't be regarded as a solution for infertility. It's about finding homes for children not children for people who want to be parents. The best reason to adopt a child is because you want to adopt a child, not because you can't have your own.

Knew I shouldn’t have opened this one but hey, here we are!

My gorgeous twins were the result of my 2nd round of ivf, luckily state funded as these rounds don’t come cheap. I fully enjoyed all the tests showing nothing was wrong with me or DH, absolutely relished in injecting myself with a wide range of drugs daily and going through hell for something that happens so easily for most. Don’t forget the internal scans or the bloated belly and crap skin! Thanks for the free rounds you gave us to allow me to be a mother to 2 kids that will never want for anything, emotionally or financially, and the incessant nonsense regarding adoption and children in care is so ignorant that I’m astounded anyone still brings that up. If you care so much, with your perfectly functioning womb, you adopt. Fucks sake...

And contrary to popular belief most people do not fall pregnant after adopting. My DH's mother never did.