...to ask why the NHS funds IVF?

[moofeatures]

I promise I'm neither an (intentionally) goady fucker, nor Katie Hopkins.

But.

Following on from a recent thread about there being a perception that public money grows on trees, I'd like to ask your stance on the NHS funding IVF.

Now, before I get flamed for my insensitivity, let me explain that I myself was diagnosed with ovarian failure in my 20s. I am still of an age where I'd meet the criteria for NHS IVF funding, which would be my only way to have a biological child. I initially grieved for this as I always assumed I'd be pregnant one day, but also from day 1 of my diagnosis I've felt that artificial reproductive hormone therapy/IUI/IVF falls outside the remit of what the NHS should provide as it serves no medically therapeutic purpose.

The logical response to my argument is: "if the only option for IVF is to privately fund, then you're depriving less affluent people the chance to become parents", which is both true and a shame... but is it the NHS's problem? Really, it's the infertility which took away that choice - and it is a choice, not a right... at least in my opinion.

Am I alone in feeling this way?

Also this is aibu hence using that phrase, there is a question of reasonableness that I am answering. Otherwise 'AIBU re IVF?' 'no everyone should be allowed babies because saying otherwise is offensive' is the only fertility conversation allowed on here.

If it was an IVF board of course I wouldn't be commenting. This is AIBU. My personal opinion is that it isn't reasonable. Obviously I don't go shouting that at strangers who haven't asked, but the OP started the discussion so presumably it's meant to be discussion rather than just lots of people who want IVF telling everyone else they aren't allowed an opinion.

I have posted that on threads in AIBU of people contemplating their 3rd.
Most people say 'dont be so negative! Go for it!' and I cringe internally.

Can I have an answer? Why does my defective uterus mean I don’t get my two children that everyone else is allowed?

Because there are so many children that you could give that love to. It's unfortunate that you have a defective uterus. It's deeply sad. But it doesn't erase your worth as a person or your ability as a mother.

we all biologically are driven to want children so it becomes emotional

Actually the scientific research suggests otherwise. We're genetically driven to want to have sex, but not to procreate

If it was innate then everyone would want kids - and lots of people don't. There's no genetic or biological difference between those women who do want kids and those who don't.

The research suggests baby hunger is a genuine phenomenon, but it's not triggered by a biological drive

I wrote about this in the Guardian last week in fact

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/02/feminist-infertility-failure-child-mother

Because there are so many children that you could give that love to

That applies to everyone who wants a child, including you.

How much is a round of IVF? Around £5k? People think nothing of spending a lot more than that on a car or a couple of holidays.

Yes, purpledaisies, which is why it has always been my plan to foster & adopt.

But it doesn't erase your worth as a person or your ability as a mother.

Never said it did. Why don’t I get my biological children? I have a medical problem, the nhs treats medical problems.

I don’t want to adopt. A medical problem is stopping me conceiving. Why don’t I deserve treatment? You have already said non barrens are allowed to have two children. Why shouldn’t that apply to me?

it has always been my plan to foster & adopt.

That’s YOUR decision. It is not mine.

Around £5-7k minimum and takes an average of 3 cycles to achieve one live birth, hence the NICE guidance for 3 funded cycles

So only the wealthy with reproductive organs that don't work should be able to have children.

I assume that child tax credits and benefit aren't needed because if people wanted their kids enough they'd find the money (which is what seems to be suggested?)

Because that's what it comes down to- want.
Just because you want something, doesn't mean it is right to get it. And most medical issues do not lead to the creation of a human being as I've said before. Let's look after the children who already exist as a priority.

People talk about how financially segregating IVF leads to class issues, wealth issues etc but that's clearly a fallacy in argument terms because if the equality of wealth was what really mattered, people would be adopting more as the biggest losers in the equality of reproduction argument are the already disadvantaged kids in care.

Shouting 'i want my kids because those people get kids' is staggeringly selfish to me. As is the choice to keep having kids while letting existing children languish being pushed from foster home to foster home, care home to care home and then out at 18 with no lasting family relationships. It makes me feel sick to think of all of these 'new' children being made, highlighting to those who can't get adopted or long term fostered how unwanted they are. Yes, it's my opinion and not yours, and my opinion is worthless because presumably you're either getting or seeking fertility treatment anyway, and I cannot change anything. But it doesn't change the hurt I feel on the behalf of kids in care.

That's a great article, @bananafish81.

It's good to see it acknowledged that women are not biologically 'abnormal' if they don't want children.

Let's look after the children who already exist as a priority.

You fucking hypocrite. You sit there in judgement of people who can’t conceive without help with your own biological children that you didn’t even plan to conceive. It isn’t fucking fair.

Shouting 'i want my kids because those people get kids' is staggeringly selfish to me.

How fucking dare you.

Thank you Blahblahblah111 and I don't mean to be at all insensitive. I can't imagine the pain of not being able to conceive, and people who haven't been through it can't imagine the shitness of endlessly not being able to stay pregnant. It's all a pile of crap when you're in the middle of it and the worst parts of the process so far aren't ever going to leave us.

What has made a huge difference is the kindness of the care we've had, nothing too much trouble, prescriptions coming out of my ears, a literally lifesaving consultant. Knowing there are people with different problems who aren't being given the help they need and deserve is heartbreaking and enraging. Not being able to have the child you desperately want is the same thing no matter what's stopping it from happening, it's incredibly unfair some problems get treatment while others don't.

We have several adoptions in my family and that's great if it's what works for you but conceiving a child and adopting a child are apples and fucking pears and children who've already lost one family unit aren't helped by the patronising twaddle about them being consolation prizes "because the planet" or whatever.

It makes me feel sick to think of all of these 'new' children being made

Makes me feel sick that you're on here like a dog with a bloody bone berating people for wanting what you had without even trying. Maybe you could ask the NHS for a compassion implant. Jesus.

Tbh I have PCOS and struggled to get pregnant. I was offered fertility treatment and opted not to and got pregnant after a long while (eight years).
for me it was the depression that came with the infertility that was the issue and it cost the NHS a lot to treat it. I've been in remission since I had my son though and it costs a lot less than before for NHS to treat me with meds and regular psych appointments.

Tbh most ppl who say 'children aren't a right' are those to never know the misery of infertility or the pain of recurrent miscarriages.

Bananafish has said everything I want to say on the matter (but more articulately).

Rixera you need to give your head a wobble.