AIBU To think universal credit are cf

[laura6032]

Just been looking into universal credit. Family's on low income would claim child tax and working tax credits, renew annually and thats it.

Now with universal credit your expected to sign a work commitment, and have meetings with a work coach to find better paid work. Like what, retail, catering and other industries have paid low wages historically.

Seems to me that this government is making low income Family's jump through hoops to get their benefits rather than go after the multi million pound employers that don't pay their employees a decent livable income.

Jus me or is this really fecking out of line. Is our government happy to subsidise low paying employers while making hard working families on low income have to hump hoops.

So a nurse working part time while doing a postgraduate degree to BECOME BETTER PAID, as everyone wants, would automatically have 10,000 added to her salary.

Happypuppy - I think that the situation you describe is a problem with the Tax Credits system as I know people who see 18 hours as a maximum number of hours to work but is it better than 2 people do 18 hours each rather than one person do the same job full-time?

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn may I ask how your so informed of the benefit system? 😕 I mean if it repulses you so much,how do you claim to know all about it,people not paying back loans,divorce statistics,reasons people have children...etc

Gin UC claimants are having to take time off work to attend JC appointments.

Just like workers have to take time off for Dr's appts, or Dentist etc etc. Having to take time off work for appointments is a fact of life.

Gilead your links are interesting, but do come from the left wing Indy paper. Also, without knowing the full facts of each claim (which we will never have) we only have one side of the story.

If your welfare depends on attending an appointment then all efforts should be made to attend.

Dentist check ups are every six months Hardly comparable.

@happy

There are ALWAYS going to be ways to work the system and people who do so. Always. In every sphere of life. I'm sure, even with UC, there will be people who find ways to do the minimum.

I'm sure there are some people who deliberately stay on 16 hours a week and get tax credits. Many do so because they wouldn't be able to afford rent and childcare with a full time job, without housing benefit and tax credits. Others might do so because they don't like working and would rather spend time with their kids. Is stopping this really worth the BILLIONS it has cost to roll out UC, along with all the human misery its caused?

As many others on this thread have pointed out the way to "make work pay" is not by literally starving people on part time jobs, but to make better working conditions, ban zero hours contracts, invest in free universal childcare and social housing.

If people had free childcare, cheap rent, and stable jobs, then work really would pay.

a lot of employers dont like you taking time off even for important appointments

Back in 2003 i had an abcess and was made to change my dentist appointment because it clashed with a training course Then on the day the training course was cancelled...........then i had to wait another 4 weeks before the dentist could fit me in.

Employers dont give two hoots about employees welfare.

a lot of employers dont like you taking time off even for important appointments Tough. That's no reason to cease UC.

Having been effectively stuck in a benefits trap for many years, I do think the system needs overhaul and UC had the potential to really help this, it is just bad designed and appallingly executed.

We have it coming in here in a year or two and I'm already planning for it, hopefully by then I will have graduated and be employed full time. However, in order for me to work full time my partner, who is self employed, needs to work part time to do school runs and be around in the holidays as there is no childcare in our rural area. There are 11 weeks of school holidays and only 6 weeks paid leave...
The rules for self employed make sense but they only give you a year to get up to minimum wage, which isn't always realistic.
Now, I know there is no way DH could have set up his own business without our benefits as we'd never have survived. I recognise that this is kind of unfair and that we have been fortunate to get this, I can see why changes are being made. But it will be a big adjustment for many and a huge shock for those who haven't planned.

I work in the NHS. On wards. Long shifts. I have never been allowed to go off shift for an appointment. It would leave the ward understaffed.

Well I don't think anyone in society should have to fend for themselves...I think we should all support each other... How horribly Darwinian.
I think the Tories want to penalise women especially single mums as we jar against their nuclear family/capitalist/ patriarchal work view.

The disgrace is that we live in a society where people in full time work still need benefits

This.

And none of us can see the future. Illness, accident, desertion, bereavement or redundancy could reduce almost anyone to penury and dependence on the state.

Well, anyone without a trust fund or rich parents.

Free childcare and cheaper rents won't suddenly instill a work ethic in people. That's why UC is tougher than tax credits, to force those not doing enough to self support to do more.

I do think though that getting rid of the majority of children's benefits and just giving free childcare for workers would be far better for society. No reason not to work then and if a person doesn't want to or wants to just do a few hours then they have to ensure that the household not others can pay for it. Easier to administer, less room for error and no appointments etc needed. Creates jobs in childcare too so even more tax payers and hopefully children will see a work ethic in the household.

gin people have also been sanctioned for attending job interviews. As in when they have documented proof they were at an interview and have been refused a change of appointment time at the Jobcentre.

Plus people who have been given conditions that are unsuitable for their circumstances. Eg a lp with only paid childcare available told to apply for evening/ night work.

If you're equipped to object to the system not being implemented correctly in your specific case, it's not too bad. But the vulnerable are being fucked over. Same as it was before uc.

And it's all very well to say tough, employers aren't going to take someone on who needs time off to attend uc appointments if they have other applicants. Low wage is better than no wage.

bexter given the content I imagine popcorns 'knowledge' comes from channel 5 documentaries.

Boxsets your comments are disgusting,i am sure no one chooses to live on the paltry amount that is UC even those who are ill have to attend these work commitments with work coach in case they get better
My son until recently when he had a strokes had never been out of work since leaving school 30 years ago now he has to live on £73 a week, for everything, got a warden controlled flat , he has other health problems too,such as anxiety and post traumatic stress from being stabbed by person unknown to him
This UC is disgusting as well, and takes a very long time to get any money at all, any advance has to be paid back,and if you lose any part of it you lose everything

What the Government should be focusing on is the feckless fathers who leave the family and then don't pay anything.

Gin and Boxsets have either of you been in the position where you have to claim benefits either as an unemployed or single/couple working parent?

It's been years since I've had to but even on tax credits it wasn't fun. It's all very well commenting but you surely must realise, as has already been stated, a lot of people could only be a month or two away from needing to visit the job centre if circumstances change.

NewtScamandersNaughtyNiffler

Exactly, well said. Who is going to do the low paid jobs when we have all trained and worked our way up the ladder? No one will do them!

Probably not boxsets pops up all the time giving words of wisdom

I’ve known so many people in min wage jobs just work the bare minimum to get tax credits top ups and it all seems so easy, so on that side of it I think there should be a few more hoops to jump through

What is wrong with working a minimum wage job? If you do it full time, why should you be forced to jump through hoops? Do people who work for minimum wage not deserve the same respect as people who earn more? Surely the issue is about able-bodied people without caring commitments (not including children who are in school) working full-time and nothing else? If they are doing that, why is it not enough?

BoxsetsAndPopcorn
Can I just point out, childcare providers fall into the bracket of low paid earners. So there probably won't be many of them left if we had to do things your way 😂 tosser.

Yes @LifeBeginsAtGin
I think that the Government should bill the NRP half of the childcare costs after the childcare element of Tax Credits is deducted. May not be possible for NRP to pay at the same time as Child Maintenance if on a low income but after Child Maintenance liability ends then payments could be made back to the government.

Why presume everybody in the childcare industry is claiming benefits as well? Many may be single, a second earner etc. Not everybody sees benefits as a lifestyle choice, plenty manage to self support.

Raining, interesting idea re making childcare repayable to the state but it would have to be shared amongst both parents not just one.

That I do agree with gin.

I'd create a lone parent premium to increase the basic income for those on lower/ no wages, and include maintanence for calculations. However the nrp would pay directly to hmrc/DWP, so the rp isn't left short. And you can guarantee that if the debt was to the government payment would be enforced.

Naturally the larger income would increase the opportunities for a none/ low earning lp. Eg locally you struggle to find work unless you have a car or out of hours childcare.