AIBU To think universal credit are cf

[laura6032]

Just been looking into universal credit. Family's on low income would claim child tax and working tax credits, renew annually and thats it.

Now with universal credit your expected to sign a work commitment, and have meetings with a work coach to find better paid work. Like what, retail, catering and other industries have paid low wages historically.

Seems to me that this government is making low income Family's jump through hoops to get their benefits rather than go after the multi million pound employers that don't pay their employees a decent livable income.

Jus me or is this really fecking out of line. Is our government happy to subsidise low paying employers while making hard working families on low income have to hump hoops.

@EastMidlands
Someone has already admitted to working below their ability level on this thread (and in her case the introduction of universal credit has had the desired effect of returning her to the more economically beneficial work that brings a higher pay).
@Starry
In most cases, especially where both parents are highly skilled, it is more economically beneficial for the country that both parents work full-time while other people who don't have the same earning ability are paid to look after the children.

Judgemental people like Boxsets would be first in the queue if things ever go tits up for them.

User, no one WILL look after my child.

@starry
I have said that where the circumstances are that increases in income are impossible or highly improbable that after a singular meeting claimants should be left alone and it is only where the claimant is choosing to earn less than their potential should continuing demands be made but believe that it is often impossible to get a true sense of circumstances without a face to face discussion so I have no problem with a one off meeting when starting a new claim.

There wouldn't be any need for conditions, work commitment signing etc if all those "hard working families" were doing their utmost

I teach full time, tutor 4 nights a week (and more when work is available) and am currently exam marking. I am still entitled to tax credits. How am I not doing my upmost?

@Road

I mean the conditionality which is on people who already are in work. Its a pretty controversial part of UC.

blogs.bath.ac.uk/iprblog/2017/10/20/working-hard-or-hardly-working-universal-credit-and-the-problem-of-conditionality/

I'm degree educated and extensively trained in my field, providing a service that could be unexpectedly needed by any one of you or your family members tomorrow. Due to advances in medical technology, more people every year survive to access our services where previously they would have died. But the majority of funding for posts like mine comes via the NHS or local authorities, both of whom have been instructed to make cuts amounting to millions. My wage has decreased over the last 10 years instead of increasing.

So when you or your loved one encounters the unthinkable and needs someone like me to help you through it, what will you do when we've all been forced out of the field?

It's parliament that set out a minimum amount of money which it deemed was enough to live on, ie, survive on, pay for the basic requirements needed to live. And the whole point in benefits and tax credits was to help people who were not reaching this minimum amount.

The employees of the major supermarkets alone in 2015 received £11billion in benefits to subsidence there income.

"Tesco paid £519m in tax but received £364m in public subsidy for its 209,000 low-paid workers. Asda spent £150m in tax but its 120,000 low-paid workers received £221m in benefits.

And that's just one sector.

This isn't about people scrounging off the state its hard working honest people having to claim benefits to fed and keep a roof over their families head. Because our current government would rather subsidise and give tax cuts to big business than the people that keep this country running.

There are so many things about uc that are wrong I don't know where to start.

But the actual theory that 2 parent families will be expected to be seeking work with school age dc to qualify for benefits, just like single parents have been for years, is one I very much agree with. I've never understood why the former got a taxpayer funded sahp but the latter, with far more responsibility and less childcare options didn't. And as a lone parent myself I don't believe anyone needs a no obligations, taxpayer funded sahp once dc start school.

Although I do absolutely agree uc is shit, and just like jsa people will be screwed over and treated like shite.

The thing is no system is ever going to be perfectly fair to every member of society.

We can keep the current system of tax credits of people getting assessed and then gaining benefits and then staying on them for as long as they like eg by not looking for higher paid work/going for promotions/increasing hours BUT we as a country can’t sustain this financially so will need to put up taxes /cut other services which isn’t fair to people who don’t claim benefits

Insist that companies pay more money in wages - this will then increase the cost of thier goods/services meaning that the cost of living will go up for everyone or means that they will have to reduce the number of staff they employ - increasing unemployment

Use the UC model (which probably needs refining) of continually at appropriate intervals assess people’s needs/eligibility for benefits and encourage them to look at ways they can provide for themselves, BUT there will be people that slip through the cracks/get unfairly penalised.

Benefits should be seen as a temporary measure so that when kids go to school/leave Home you are in a position to fend for yourself. They shouldn’t be seen as a lifestyle.

Non resident parents should be required by law to provide more than the current calculations, they should also have this taken out at source with tax etc, self employed NC parents should have greater investigation into thier finances to prevent them scamming the system to pay as little as possible for thier children. Non payment should result in jail time

The disgrace is that we live in a society where people in full time work still need benefits. We pay people peanuts, refuse to train them properly and then wonder why we have a productivity problem and a huge welfare bill despite record levels of employment.

To everyone saying the people shouldn't rely on benefits and its out of laziness ect, you do realise that someone of a minimum wage full time job will still be entitled to help, even on UC right? Because in most parts of the country its not possible to keep 2 children and pay rent on 14,000.

I agree with both BoxsetsAndPopcorn and BrieAnd Chilli

There is no bottomless pit of money and I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to support themselves financially if they are able,
rather than relying on other people's tax funding their lifestyle.

@daddy

yes. it used to be that a single working man's wage could keep a sahm and 4 kids and a terrace house.

I am dreading it coming in here. DH is our sole earner and I look after SN ds11 and our other 2. There is no way I could go to work as I couldn't get childcare for DS. His respite is already hard enough to get (the one person he will go to who can handle him) and that's £30 an hour! How I would do that in the school holidays I don't know. Plus having 2 other children. I get the princely sum of £64 a week for what his respite charge £30 an HOUR for. Is there any provisions in the UC for carers? Or if DH left me would I be in the shit?

Full time workers should not have to need benefits to top up their wages in order to live. This is the real issue but govt don't want to address it. They would rather punish low paid workers who may not have any other employment options. It's very very unfair.

It's a shower of shite.

I think it’s good that they are starting to look at peoples eligibility on a more individual basis.

If you work 10 hours a week but all your kids are at school for 30 hours a week
Scenario A- you continually look for jobs with more hours/higher rate of pay but there are none within a reasonable distance of your home - You keep getting paid UC and the assessor will help you look into training to do a job yowluld like to get into
Scenario B - you don’t look for work and the assessor can see that your current employer is advertising for people for 20 hours a week doing the job you are currently doing - stop your benefits or limit them as you can reasonably increase your own income but have chosen not to.
Scenario C - you have a child with SN and have to attend numerous appts for them during the week. The assessor can see you can’t possibly fit in more hours due to your caring responsibilities - you keep your benefits.

Now that is in an ideal world and the not all assessors will see things the same and there will be people that get fairly penalised:others that managed to con an assessor so they don’t have to work.
But there have to be rules and the limited money has to be dealt out in the fairest way possible.

The people moaning - how do you propose we keep the benefit train going at its current rate? There are no incentives for people to come off benefits, there a lot of people who don’t see benefits as a stigma and will live generations without looking for work as it’s easiest

'Full time workers should not have to need benefits to top up their wages in order to live. This is the real issue but govt don't want to address it. They would rather punish low paid workers who may not have any other employment options. It's very very unfair.'

This.

@mother

exactly

@user139328237 Just because you have a degree it doesn't mean that you can get a well paid job. I know plenty of people that have graduated and now work in the retail and service industries because that's all that they can get.

If people are going out to work it doesn't matter if they are paid minimum wage or a high wage, they should all be valued and those on a lower wage should be given help.

People don't have crystal balls but it's not rocket science to see that if you have numerous children and the relationship breaks down that you can't then afford to support so many. Given the divorce statistics it's not hard to believe a relationship may not last.
Wow, Boxsets that's good even for you! We've all got to be fucking psychic now. And don't come back with shit about planning for the future. Things happen. I'm not spiteful so I hope it doesn't happen to you, but for those of us it did happen to, your bullshit is spiteful, mean and petty.

Full time workers should not have to need benefits to top up their wages in order to live. This is the real issue but govt don't want to address it.

This with big fat bells on.
My dh is now disabled but when he was working and I lost my job he was earning enough to support me and my 3 dc (he is not df to any of them) and our tc went down to £4ish a week. So we didn't need them but was just easier to keep them going with tc

I'm petrified when uc comes in our area as dh is disabled and I am his full time carer.
On a bad day even with kids at school I won't get to sit down till 9pm.
On good days I manage to get a little time to myself but I can't sign anything that is so structured coz I don't know what kind of day dh is having until he wakes up.
So I don't know when I could search.

We are hard working people who have just had shit circumstances and now we rely on benefits.

Your so lucky if you don't dread the postman walking up your path with what could be a letter saying we are taking away your money give us x amount of time to get it sorted.

There are no incentives for people to come off benefits, there a lot of people who don’t see benefits as a stigma and will live generations without looking for work as it’s easiest.
Please stop promulgating this tired old trope and do some research. There are plenty of threads where evidence has been cited and plenty of others telling you where to find said evidence. In the meantime because of this people with disabilities are victimised because people like you continue to pump out this nonsense.

missed a comma. Apologies.