to be able to bemoan a bad day as a SAHM mum without the thread being hi-jacked by rampant feminists who think that "housewives" should be lined up and shot, either that or pitied and patronised!

[lucyellensmum]

Thats just it really, there are days, im sure you know as a SAHM when you feel a bit shit about things. Just like any job i would imagine, i've certainly spent much time moaning about my jobs in the past, whether they have been ones i have enjoyed or endured. So here's the thing, i have been having a down couple of days, my pre-baby friends have moved on pretty much and i feel "out of it" when i return to an old job on a casual and part time basis and im completely in the dark about the goings on. I've lost my confidence and feel dowdy.I feel tired because i have not been able to shift a cold for the past, what feels like forever and DD isnt sleeping well. My relationship with my partner could be better as we are under financial strain, although that is getting better. So, i thought, i know, i'll post a rant on mumsnet and get it off my chest. In return i will get some empathy and a chivvy along and be told "yes lucyellens mum, we all have days like that - it will pass, because actually, it always does, it has today, i took DD to the park in a sulk because DP was finishing the patio and couldnt come with. But by the time the sweet little girl had said three new words (she has speech delay so this is a BIG deal) and had fun at the swings, "helped" me fetch some cakes for daddy in the shops, the sun was out again.

BUT, of course, what would happen is pretty predictable, I would probably be informed that it is totally my own fault for becoming a stepford wife and abandoning my career, and that probably didn't amount to much anyway as i am clearly brain dead, that must be so as i am proud to be a SAHM. That i lack confidence because really, i make no significant imput to my family or society as a whole and if i try to defend myself then i am obviously over defensive and "know" that my life is shit but am sticking my head in the sand.

Well thanks mumsnet (not everyone i hasten to add, most of you are lovely - just like me) for making me feel so good about myself! Not the parental solidarity i expected i can tell you. I know there are plenty of SAHMs out there who feel the same way i do, but we don't tend to say for fear of being pounced on or pronounced weak.

I am actually considering getting a part time job (one up from gutter scun i know, but hey at least its a step up) as my dd is ready for part time nursery so thats pretty scary really. As for whether i will continue to mumsnet, im not sure TBH as my confidence is in definate need of boosting after reading certain threads, which yes, i know i shouldnt read or get drawn into but i feel it is my right as a FEMINIST to defend my CHOICES.

I beg to differ.

Pennies time to return to my pre-Easter name I think LOL

You can have the best of both worlds. If it works for you, fabulous. If it dosn't, do something else. Those who can't for whatever reason I have immense compassion for. Those who criticise other people's choices I just find bizarre and unfeeling.

The ultimate goal of feminism imo is the freedom to choose and not have a lifestyle enforced upon you. In the fifties and before it was sahm, now it seems some want it to be wohm. I say different strokes for different folks- and at different times in their lives as well.

One issue also is some people are more sensitive than other too on line and some are very ill or depressed sometimes. We'll all have heard stories of people saved from suicide on line so there's a fine line to tread sometimes if you have someone who appears very vulnerable. What some people see as fun jousting others just can't manage.

It's a bit like banter in the office - one woman will give as good as she gets to sexist men and enjoy getting the better of them and another with the same treatment will be a nervous wreck.

Very true Xenia- with the added factor that in the opffice you can see if someone has tears streaming down their face

It's impossible to tell who is strongest on line- I'm a classic example of that, I'm not sweary on whatever but actually i'm quite strong and stable, in my own way- the rest of you?

That's the thing isn't it? On MN there is no way whatsoever of knowing. I mean, someone could be recently discharged from hospitalisation with puerperal psychosis, or after an attempted suicide- we wouldn't know!

In RL you build up relationships to the joshing, piss take level. Poeple need to remember to maintain some of that on MN. Name changing doesn't help that actually- I never know who is new, or just has a new name.

lucyellensmum - I haven't read the whole thread but let me tell you this. I'm a SAHM but I do some freelance work from home. Today I did a whole day at the client's office and my God, it was a piece of piss. I've not sat down for such a long stint in around 6 years (since ds1 was born). Even just the 40 minute car journey - I mean, easy peasy without 3 kids with me - music blaring, singing along. A whole hour of 'freedom', to each lunch interrupted - such bliss.

Despite it being a complete doddle, I still wouldn't swap being a SAHM for that. I must have seen the kids for the grand total of about 2 hours today. No thanks.

'uninterrupted' of course!

'There is no such thing as ' the best of both worlds '....'

Hate to tell you this but, I have it. So don't kid yerself!

Xenia - very interesting point

GDG - sounds like you have it sorted! whats your secret, I'm floundering with my life just now?!?

But I don't think it means don't put an argument. On the other hand personal criticism is usually out of order and fairly pointless. People should attack arguments not people. But even then some people are so vulnerable that if their argument is attacked - like you are damaging your baby by giving it formula or if you don't go to it when it cries you let it learn you don't love it or whatever the argument is people do get very upset.

Xenia, I think it's often that when we talk about someone's argument, generalizations creep in, which aren't personal attacks but come pretty darn close.

Xenia, I think it's often that when we talk about someone's argument, generalizations creep in, which aren't personal attacks but come pretty darn close.

oh, bloody hell. sorry about that.

oh dear, what have I started. I certainly do not want Xenia to feel targeted by my thread, but something tells me she can give as good as she gets

I DO like feminists, in fact i am probably one of the most "rampant" feminists i know, really i am. ITs quite funny actually because my ILs are of the opinion that a womans place is at home with the bairns and would have a big problem if i chose to work. I can tell you that may have pushed me back into work just to make a point but i have made my choice. That said, i can sit and snarl like a rotweiller sometimes at my MILs opinions and i can see DP inwardly flinching thinking that i will not hold my tongue, to be fair to inlaws the comments are never directed at me, they wouldnt dare!!! Maybe i like to prod at xenia and mohze simply because they give a good argument. The irony is that before i had my DD2 i would have sided with them, no question. When i had my DD2 something changed in me and i realised that i wanted the whole domesticity thing for a bit, let my man look after me (heaven forbid) and look after his baby. It just gets my goat, really gets my goat that some people think that you can't that and still be a feminist. I'm not letting myself down, or my family, and certainly not the sisterhood, i am grateful for the sacrafices women have made in the past to enable my CHOICES.

Someone said that they had an easy day when they did some freelance work, well i do some casual work at the moment, and yes, even though sometimes it can be very stressful it is certainly refreshing, but that is the whole change as good as a rest thing.

So maybe i should hang my head a little as i probably do post a little provocatively at times. Oh and for the record, im having a good day today and hope people do not see me as vulnerable, lol, now that is funny.

(previous post - The irony is that before i had my DD2 i would have sided with them, no question) I meant Xenia and mohze, in fact when i was pregnant i was offered a job, unofficially and i had to obviously tell the guy i was preggers. He said i may feel diffferently when the baby came along but if i still wanted the job it was mine. I told him not to be ridiculous and that i would be back at work after maternity leave. Then i fell in love with my baby! He just looks at me and smiles whenever he sees me around now, i just look sheepish and feel so lucky to have my little girl

glad you're having a good day lucy!

your post was very well put and you come across as very intelligent and thoughtful

your little ones will benefit from spending the day with such a good mum, don't ever think otherwise!

Usually I think people posting about how they have had a bad day get loads of support. however, if you put SAHM in a the title a thread will tend to go a certain way. My advice: don't put SAHM in the title, and definitely don't use inflamatory expressions such as rampant feminist.

I do think you can be a femininst and stay at home. I think feminism is that women should have equal rights under the law, right to vote, own property, work in any job and I extend it to the home so that there is fairness there too so you don't have someone saying I have a penis so I can't scrub loos or whatever.

I also think being a housewife is very hard work and it's not fair in a sense to have to do part time work too - worst of all worlds. In fact if you work part time you may in a sense be damaging stay at home mothers because you're kind of denigrating the full time important role of housewife and mother may be?

I still get back to my basic point that I couldn't stand to be home and that alone my role. I do more than enough house and domestic stuff every day for the last 22 years to ever have wanted to do it full time.

I think the p[art time thing is great for some women: I liked it as I could then bring in (just) enough to make up DH's wages to live, and yet spend a lot moe time with ds's. Its also good if you don't have much of a social network- not everyone ahs the mates / family to go visit and I do think adult company is essential for ones sanity!

I count Uni as part time work really- it brings in money and the time there (although not time working at home) is part time: it definitely gices me a social network that I ahve needd beinga way from friends and family

Xenia your opinions on part time working leave me feeling exasperated time after time after time. Please answer my point directly:

I work out of my home 2 days per week, and at home one day per week. My days / hours are completely flexible and up to me. For instance, this week I will work Weds & Sat out of 'the home' and Thursday at home. For the work I do for an employer, I am extremely well paid. They want me, which is why they bend over backwards to accomodate me. If they make remarks about me or think I am some sort of slacking 'part timer' behind my back, they certainly don't show it. And personally, I couldn't give a toss anyway. I spent the better part of 10 years making my presence felt in my chosen industry - now I am confident and clever enough to know how to to my job in less time, for more money, on my terms.

On the day I work freelance from home, I build a business for myself and continue to increase my contacts / network. I set the fee (a very good one, in my opinion!) and I don't even have to leave my kitchen to do this if I don't want to (I can of course take meetings or do lunch if I choose to). I have factored into my week lots of time to be with my son and my DH. I have also factored in a fair bit of 'me time' - time I actually have MORE of now as a mum in my 30s than I did as a single, career-obssessed 20-something (time to read, to write, to get my hair done, to exercise etc).

Excuse my life story...BUT HOW HAVE I GOT THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS?

Perhaps I am not in the majority. But you make sweeping generalisations and they very definitely DO NOT apply to me, so I'm guessing there are other women out there for whom they don't apply also.

Please, before you share your extremely skewed opinion with us all for the umpteenth time, at least try to base it on reality - nd certainly try to take into account more than just your own limited experiences.

LoveAngel - are you me?!?! That is spooky! I could have written that post!

Oh, except, in the main, all my work is at home although this week I've been working at a client's office for 2 days and I'm doing Friday as well - that's rare though and it's enough to indicate just how restrictive it is and how little I see of my children.

The way I work, I can go clothes shopping when I want, I can go to the gym when I want, eat when I want, wear what I want etc etc. It's blardy marvellous!