To think trying to infiltrate the PTA is a waste of energy?

[channingtatumspecs]

@whyismykid recently asked in AIBU why people didn't volunteer.
I wanted to share my recent experience.
General call for volunteers for the committee to organize a school birthday fete. I contacted the organizers as occasionally get the urge to be a bit more involved in school life, despite working really long hours running a business. Mentioned that i run events and tho I wasn't sure I could give a lot of time and attend multiple meetings I would be happy to use my vendor connections etc.

Anyway after their initial committee meeting the main woman sent me their minutes and said yes pls we'd like to use your connections can you help in XYZ way ?

I read the minutes and sent a lengthy reply about some of the items they wanted to do, and suggested things like "I see the committee decided against this due to budget however I have a vendor who can do this for X amount but have U considered that a local business could sponsor this for X (small) amount and have their logo and contact info on all the take away that each person would get from using this thing. Therefore having this wouldn't cost anything and is a really fun thing to have there that loads of people would want to do. In addition you could charge people a small amount for doing this thing and any revenue could go back to the event.
I also had various other ideas that would not cost them anything if they were a bit creative about it and would make it a really fun event.
Anyway hard to explain without saying exactly what but hope you get the idea.

The response was thanks for that but we don't have budget so we're doing it this way like we always have. I replied to ask if she had properly read my proposal and did she understand that it wouldn't cost anything and haven't heard back again.?!!

I'm inclined to think well who cares I was just trying to make the event less crap but it's nothing to do with me but I'm frustrated that they are so set in their ways they won't consider anything different. This comes back to the fact it is the usual PTA committee doing just their way and I feel a bit slighted !! I am actually glad I didn't volunteer for the committee and give up all my time to attend meetings when any ideas are not welcome anyway!
So AIBU to think that the PTA, despite asking for help, really doesn't welcome it anyway ?

Did you miss Whitecurrents' post, OP? because that would also be the case in our school - we have to be very careful about involving commercial interests (in Australia, so different situation of course, but I did wonder if that might be a factor in your school too)

@TobysAunt thank you and I really wasn't trying to take over I have no desire to run the thing but was surprised when asked for input that I felt I was shot down. I can't help but see how many working and non working mums have skills from the workplace etc that are so transferable to this sort of thing.
A couple of my working friends and I have long felt we should try and get involved more but the attitude of the ruling parents is off putting to be honest.
At my school PTA is run by a group of now SAHM who before kids were high powered lawyers bankers hr managers etc etc and now (rightly ) use their skills on the PTA and do it well . I guess the issue comes in when it's run like an exclusive cliquey organization and no one can infiltrate even when just trying to be helpful (and show their kids they CAN do other stuff except work!)

@Pengggwn It's fine by me. And I'm sure it's fine by them. that's cool I really was just trying to help but I think you've proved my original AIBU with this comment. So yeah - I'm wasting my time obvs

channingtatumspecs

The problem is you come across an exceptionally defensive and snippy.

I noted in your OP that you actually emailed the woman back asking whether she understood the content of your first email. Just so rude and unnecessary and patronising.

Take a bit of time to reflect on the best way to approach people when you want to influence them. It will help.

@ThumbWitchesAbroad i did read it. Not sure if that's the case- if so wouldn't an experienced PTA member just say that? At the same time they're asking for donations for things like printing in exchange for mention in booklet so perhaps not the same
Also not raising money for school with this fair if that makes a diff ?
Interesting points though

I think you are coming up far too strong, esp if you are not happy to actually do the work yourself.

As PP said, just giving ideas and contacts doesn’t mean there is no work involved for the actual PTA members and other volunteers. Also, such organising lives from meeting in person. I am just in the middle of the Y6 leaving events and it is a nightmare doing it via WhatsApp and email" Skype is hardly a possibility for lots of people, I wouldn’t want to wait until late in the evening for one to come home and want to talk.

I also did 4 years of NCT volunteering, we met to get over items and events. We also had various people with skills and contacts but they were happy to work, not just tell others what to do.

As I parent I would be less then impressed going to a school event and being filled up with corporate advertisement. The school may actually have a policy about this. I know these things do bring money but we talk about an event for children, not for adults who can know what advertisement is.

You don’t have sufficient time to volunteer, and that’s OK. I don’t either, and if I did have time to volunteer would choose something else better suited to my skills and priorities.

It isn’t U for the PTA to defer to people who DO have time.

IME in any organisation, paid or voluntary, it’s difficult to influence people and change how things are done, especially for newcomers. except where senior managers make decisions and their staff implement them. In voluntary situations, unless the senior person decides, people with the most time dedicated to the work often have more say.

It is also unusual for decisions made in key meetings to be overturned! A committee I once worked on had a strict policy that if a member missed a meeting and, after seeing the agenda, had not put points/suggestions forward in advance they should not argue against decisions made! The chair usually enforced this.

Your suggestion, was a good one OP. They clearly feel threatened by you. Sounds like their empire building, is the only thing they have in their lives.
It really isn’t you OP

AIBU to think that the PTA, despite asking for help, really doesn't welcome it anyway

In that one particular instance of that one particular PTA, perhaps. Or maybe they're just resistant to change. Or maybe they have tried something similar years in the past and had their fingers burned. Or maybe they have a policy against corporate partnerships - we scrounged 500 free coffee cups from McDonalds to serve drinks in at the Spring Fair and had complaints from parents as it was "promoting junk food".

@Pengggwn The problem is you come across an exceptionally defensive and snippy. Honestly only in reply to you I think most of my responses have been pretty genuine and accepting of feedback
From the start you’ve launched into :

”Your email sounds to me like you want to manage them from a distance. “

”Then that sense of superiority is probably why they don't want your contribution, OP. Sounds like a perfect arrangement - they keep spending their time as they have been doing, you keep spending yours.”

”You wanted considerable input having put in ZERO graft.”

I think I’ve just defended myself from you whilst responding to others

channingtatumspecs

Oh I am most definitely snippy. But I am not the one trying to get people to accept me into an established group. That's you. I am just explaining how what you say you wrote will have looked to others. You didn't show your face at a meeting, then went through the minutes arguing the toss about their decisions, then made a bunch of suggestions that would mean more work and time, then insulted the woman by implying she didn't understand English.

Can you really not see why she hasn't answered you?

@Pengggwn I noted in your OP that you actually emailed the woman back asking whether she understood the content of your first email.  Just so rude and unnecessary and patronising.

Yes TOTAL shocker isn't it! In fact her reply said again they wanted to do the thing but didn't have budget so I wanted to ensure that I had been clear that although this vendor would need paying there was a way around it! I wasn't rude or patronizing in anyway

Clearly you're head of one of these groups which is why you're on my case so much

channingtatumspecs

Yes, that's obviously it. I'm the head of the PTA.

@Pengggwn But I am not the one trying to get people to accept me into an established group this is hilarious! I promise I'm not trying to infiltrate an established group and I honestly don't care if they think I'm rude or whatever. The point is I was asked for my input and I gave it. Take it or leave it but I was just surprised that no input was considered.
And from PP I get that it takes work to put new ideas in place etc etc and who am I to dare when I can't be there in person etc etc
I get it I'll get back in my box

You’re being U to infer that your school PTA, or other PTAs, don’t welcome people, from what’s occurred.

Many posters understand what you were trying to do but have pointed out why your approach might not have succeeded.

You were the one who used the word 'infiltrate', OP.

And if you don't care that they think you're rude, that may be the root of the issue.

There isn’t evidence that your suggestions weren’t considered, they just weren’t taken up. Posters have given lots of plausible reasons why this may have happened other than that the PTA are unwelcoming or want to put anyone “in a box”.

Think of this in a work capacity. You agree to take on a new member of staff. Before they have met the team this new person emails the team and tells them that everything they are doing is wrong, and this is what they should be doing instead.
Even if you are right, someone behaving this way at work is unlikely to last long. There is no reason why volunteers should react any differently.
People naturally don't like being told that what they are doing is wrong. Whether in a work situation or volunteer situation, you need to approach this much more sensitively.

Before they have met the team this new person emails the team and tells them that everything they are doing is wrong, and this is what they should be doing instead.

I was trying to think of a work equivalency and this is it.

But to add to it, they miss the meeting in which the proposal is discussed, having informed you they probably won't be able to attend future meetings either because they are very busy.

@Loopytiles *
Many posters understand what you were trying to do but have pointed out why your approach might not have succeeded.* and I think I've both acknowledged and accepted that feedback

Trust me when I say, from bitter experience, that the leaders of these PTA groups do not appreciate anyone pointing out that what they do can be improved. They do not take it as helping, they take it as you trying to point out their failings and frankly, I would walk away now. They are busy bodies in my experience and when I tried to help out and improve stuff out of nothing more than knowing schools need every penny they can rake in, my life and my DDs was made so miserable we had to move schools.
Let them get on with their crappy event.

Agree with many others. You need to commit to doing something. Eg I will sort out that stall and then you do everything and use your connections. What you have suggested might be great but would have added lots more work for the others who do not necessarily have the time or skills to do it. If you want to be involved you need to really have the time to go to meetings and to events themselves. I suppose this is why most people dont do it as they are too busy working.

@crunchymint I get what you're saying
@Pengggwn But to add to it, they miss the meeting in which the proposal is discussed, having informed you they probably won't be able to attend future meetings either because they are very busy.
Could we also then add that they are emailed with the proposal and asked what parts they might be able to help with ?
It wasn't specified which parts I should not speak about.
This newbie was asked if they new anyone that could do XY and Z and perhaps I overstepped by not only commenting on XY and Z but by also trying to loop in AB and C

@cansu You need to commit to doing something think I already addressed this

channingtatumspecs

That is exactly how you overstepped. If I email someone asking if they can help with item 1 on a set of minutes and they say, would you also like any input on 2 and 4 as I have some expertise there? No problem.

If they email me back with a detailed dissection and new plan, that's overstepping.