Family Drama

[PossiblyPFB]

Sorry this is going to be a long one........Looking for some advice on how to deal with a very tricky family situation. Obviously there are nuances I can’t go into as would be here all night writing up the crazy!

I’ve written this with my sibling as we are facing this together and looking to receive some no-BS AIBU views from people not emotionally involved!

The players involved..... (not real names)
“Mary” : DGM, elderly widow, 97 years old and in failing health.
“Billy” ,Her middle son, “The starving artist” mid-60 something. Presently of no fixed abode. Has resided with Mary rent free for many years.
“Karen” second eldest and only daughter. “The Martyr”.
“Bob”, Karen’s husband.
Rick & Shelly- Karen & Bob’s adult kids (us)

Basically the current situation is as follows. Mary is on her deathbed. Karen and Bob have been caring for her in their home now for 18m, taking care of everything from bills to physical care, meals, doctors appointments, management of her finances leading to positive savings, medications, bathing, toiletting, cleansing, nighttime wakings, helping to sell her home, etc.

They now receive some respite care through a hospice service but for the first 13 months received no help and literally put their lives on hold to care for a very frail lady. They recently helped Mary to sell her home in order to receive that hospice help and free up her estate.

Over the years Billy and two other brothers have taken advantage of Mary in a variety of ways and have led lives which would be too extensive to go through and tangential, but which could form the basis of a mediocre Jackie Collins novel. Karen has never asked for or received any monetary (or much emotional for that matter) support from Mary, who in comparison has always absolutely worshipped the ground her 3 sons have walked on.

Since the recent sale of Mary’s home, Billy has become effectively homeless. Despite having lived rent free with Mary for many years, he did not help with any of her care and did not help her to keep an orderly, clean, sanitary home. Billy has a large warehouse where he keeps his “treasures” and personal collections of “stuff” (hoarder who keeps things of no value). He also has recently taken a rental on a shop front. However he has not prioritised obtaining a home of his own.

The crux of the situation we are now facing is this: Billy feels he has been treated very badly indeed by Karen in “making him homeless”. Billy vocalises this to anyone he meets including Karen’s adult children. Billy has a habit of squatting if he’s invited to stay, sleeping on the sofa, not helping with any care or household aspects, not showering, simply watching tv all day, all while criticising Karen and Bob, eating all the food and generally being unpleasant and ungrateful. He has a victim mentality and expects to be taken care of and not to have to take responsibilities for his own life. He also will not leave until an argument ensues when he is asked to leave and he strops off.

The present situation is this: Mary is (we think) in her last days. She is completely bedridden and has become delusional. It’s very stressful and the care aspect is constant. She sometimes doesn’t recognise Karen but asks for Billy and her other sons constantly. Karen is also very resentful of being left caring for her mother while her brothers have done nothing practical to help, but who are the apples of Mary’s eye.

Billy has proposed to come and stay again to visit Mary in her last days/weeks/months. While they certainly want to ensure Billy has access to Mary in her final days, Karen and Bob do not want Billy to physically stay in their home again because it will add a huge stress to a very trying time. There has been a lot of conflict in the past because of fundamental personality differences and this would not be healthy.

Billy will try passive aggressive and overtly aggressive tactics to work his way into their home again.

The options we can see (and why they’ve been dismissed) are:

1. let Billy stay with Karen & Bob (not desirable as above)
2. let Billy stay with Rick (Rick’s wife is pregnant and needs to avoid stress. Also Shelly is visiting from out of town and staying with them already to be out of the way)
3. Billy sleeps in his van in Karen & Bob’s driveway (not ideal as he will do it if another solution isn’t provided for him)

So- Karen, Rick, Mary & Shelly fund a hotel room nearby for Billy to keep him out of their homes. That’s where we are at and will likely do for him. But it feels completely annoying to provide - again- for Billy when as a 60 something grown-ass man he hasn’t prioritised his own financial security over many years to be able to afford to do this for himself.

AIBU that there doesn’t seem to be another solution? How would you handle this? How can we offer access without having him come in and squat for an indeterminate time period? Thanks for any ideas!!

...Nobody really knows how he pays for the warehouse and shop front.

Disney bro is blowing into town tonight & we’ll talk strategy ahead of Billy’s arrival I’m sure. Canapés at the ready to butter him up.

Meanwhile Mary is really deteriorating. It’s just such a sad state of affairs.

Hmm. He's likely well able to pay for his own accommodation.

Shelly and Rick, sending you a hand hold for a difficult situation. Mary growing frailer must be really hard for you.

One day something must be done about Billy, if only to help Karen with her feelings about the work she has done and the actions she has had to taken in sorting out the house. I’m with you in that today isn’t that day.

Billy isn’t getting worse because for a short period it’s situation normal with everyone pandering to him. He’ll wait. In any case it isn’t down to you what is going on at the moment. Karen called on Disney Brother and he acted.

Look after yourselves (I include Rick’s DW in that) and Karen and Bob. Together look after Mary.

Yep!

Quack I think I am right, you don't have a Billy in your life, do you

Regardless of how this thread turns out, Billy's are fucking exhausting. They are social frag bombs, incendiary devices, that are primed to go off at the most unexpected of times.

I would bet that those posters who do have a Billy could tell some hideously amazing tales... but anyone without a Billy would 'call it' for all of them.

And now you have all got me worriting about the imminent arrival of mine... it already is the end of the bloody month. Aaaaaaargh!!!

CuriousaboutSamphire There was actually. He was my stepfathers son. Always asking for money and would show up banging on the door demanding to stay. He was a cunt, would pick on us younger ones (he was in his 20s and living with his Mum) get us into trouble but wouldn’t leave when he said he would. It would take handing over hundreds for him to leave. He was horrible and only show up when he wanted something or needed money etc. Would get himself into trouble with the police and then come to ours to hide etc. Eventually my mum (and me when I was a lot older) basically told him to fuck off when he came round drunk one day. I told him he’s a piece of shit and needs to sort his life out etc and he spat at me and went for me. Demanding money and a place to sleep etc which meant one of us lost our bed for his duration. When he went for me my mum finally fully stood up to him and told him to leave or she would call the police and never to show up again. Thankfully it worked, then I left the home and as far as I’m aware he did show up the odd time but was ignored and told where to go and then he stopped.

I almost wish mine would do something quite so blatant... then we could actually act... like you did! That must have been wearing and bloody terrifying!

Sadly, my Billy is never quite so obvious and so any negative reaction just seems to be me being mardy! Like the time he asked for 10K just 3 days before we completed our house purchase... "I know this might leave you short for the house, but we really do need the help!"

He didn't. But his sudden realisation that we must have had savings for years that he had lost his chance to spend was aggravating him!

We laugh about it now, DH and I. But at the time he was furious and I was dumbstruck! That wouldn't happen now, but I am, effectively, still hiding from him

We've got a Billy in the family. BIL, who was always treated by his mother as a 'delicate child'. He was subsidised financially throughout he years by his parents, despite owning his home outright, earning a good wage and being in excellent health. He had a nasty shock two years ago when his mother died and the family treated him exactly like everyone else. He still can't believe that people are actually saying no to him. His mantra is 'it's not fair!'

I’d have told him to fuck off asking for that amount of money. How do people do it? I just couldn’t and don’t understand how they do. Even if you do seem Marty I’d still just be blunt with it all. They are so blunt themselves I don’t think they can understand anything else.

Quack would you believe I emailed back "Sorry, but we have already handed all we have to the solicitor"?

It bought me time! This time, he asked me to be guarantor for their UK flat, I said no... and even then had to qualify it with an explanation - I am self employed!

I know that is pathetic, but it is really hard to be quite so rude to someone everything about our society insists we should be polite to! The fact that I am fully aware he uses that to his best advantage doesn't always help.... but, as I have just supported DSis through her big "Fuck Off" moment, I am now free to be as mardy as I like (she needed to get some legal paperwork signed to remove him from her finances).

I almost look forward to his next CF request....

Thankfully I’m broke as fuck so no one asks me for money lol I’ve also found it easier to stand up
To family, but people I don’t know as well id struggle a lot more. I’m not very assertive but need to be. I tend to keep to myself to my own disadvantage and therefore have no one that can be a cheeky fucker to me. I feel I’m missing out sometimes lol

I feel like we’ve found some of our people on this thread!

Billy has arrived.... He’s been ok so far, but has already indicated his desire to ‘not leave Mary’s side’ and his plans to ‘paint while he watches over her’ ..... feels like a matter of time as he tends to start slow and wind up. Karen and I are going for decompression pedicures soon....

Do let us know how you get on. This thread is absolutely fascinating.

He did comply and followed us to Rick’s friend’s last night, we checked it out and the accommodation was pretty... basic. Hoping that he won’t kick up a fuss about it today but that’s not guaranteed. He doesn’t know we are paying Rick’s friend for the accommodation. Karen won’t handle it well right now as she’s so stressed and won’t rest. We didn’t get out in the end yesterday for a break as K didn’t feel she could leave.

Mary rallied when Billy arrived which was on one level good... she had been pretty non-verbal with worsening vitals for two days, when she was verbal she was seeing things and talking to long-dead relatives etc. I forgot something in the house as we were all leaving last night and overheard mom speaking to her, Mary was lucid and worried about where Billy was staying and if he had eaten. K was reassuring her that he had been fed and explaining why he wasn’t staying.

Argh! Well, I suppose you all only have to see Mary off as comfortably as possible, Billy mithering and all, and then you can cut him off, remove him form your existence.

I assume K will feel like shit as she will be sidelined til the very end, whilst doing all the donkey work. But that is it. She can have a clear conscience, know she did her every best and she can now cut free from all those unhealthy blood ties!

This end, DSis has got her financial freedom almost sorted, oddly my Billy has not contacted me since I said no to the guarantor thing, I am obviously of no use to him at the moment! We think he has asked one of his replacement kids to do it it for him - niece or nephew! We do wonder what they think of us, but assume they will work it out over the next couple of years - he is nothing their recently deceased father, or their mum (his sister) recently diagnosed with a nasty degenerative disorder. They are vulnerable to his blandishments!

Our (somewhat Surrendered) mother has sent a couple of snippy emails about s ignoring his fb requests - we blocked him after he posted on my business page - my customers don't need to read how he thinks that some women are using #metoo to make themselves famous and that if any of them were sexually assaulted they probably asked for it!

He is truly despicable, she isn't much better as she supports his every move!

And yes, it is nice to have found some people who will understand why we react as we do

I can't help but think by involving a friend in Billy's acclamation you've added an extra layer of complexity. What if he refuses to leave the friends when Mary dies?
It wasn't your problem where Billy stayed.

That should say accommodation btw! Sorry that post sounds arsier than I meant it too.

Yes AK does feel like shit and she’s doing a good job of holding it all together even if it’s obvious to us that it’s a hair trigger thin veil of composure and grace. Her mother did treat her poorly growing up in favour of the boys. K left home as a very young adult, moved across the country for many years, while remaining in touch, but has asked for nothing from her / them. And now she’s helping carers change her and inserting suppositories while the boys ‘don’t want to see that’.

Karen and I haven’t always had the best of relationships but this situation has helped me to understand where some of the really deep hurt comes from and explains some of our troubles. Our relationship will be forever better I think because of this time. I’m so blown away by what she has sacrificed of herself to make Mary’s last years and especially last months comfortable. It is just beyond words how she has done the right thing despite her family situation. It has really broken some chains for me.

@curiousaboutsamphire Your situation seems so tough too! So aggrivating. Yes they will work it out in the end I fear. Most people have a threshold for being taken advantage of. And it’s suprising how many people are willing participants / enablers to them and don’t see the issue. They become immune to seeing it and buy into the person’s percieved divine right to what everyone else has worked hard for which is infuriating!!

We are heading over shortly, hoping for no fireworks!

Hope it goes as smoothly as it can x

...honestly, he wouldn’t have paid for a hotel despite having brand new iPhone) He would have slept in his van on Karen and Bob’s driveway and then done his put-upon sad-sack poor me routine until either he worms his way onto their couch for the duration, or Karen has a breakdown, either way making everything worse at a really trying & sad time.

The friend is a very no nonsense person and Billy can be charming, to strangers and people he’s just met. He will want to be a ‘cool buddy’. Putting him there was tactical. He’s less than 5 mins drive from Rick.

I can't help but think by involving a friend in Billy's acclamation you've added an extra layer of complexity Sometimes it can be a great idea as no Billy ever lets the selfish side show. The friend will never see the issue, Billy will present a beautifully manicured front. That is how Billy's roll.

I don't know anyone other than DSis, myself and my mothers mother (maybe her sister and her DH) who think my father is anything less than a wonderfully generous, funny, kind, sociable man. The reality is he is a conman, a thief, a misogynistic twat who raised his 2 daughters to believe that he is all that ever stood between them and a world that treats women as 2nd class citizens, whilst training them to forever feel beholden, willing to give him anything he asked for!

The penny only dropped for me when I met my now DH and my DSis remained clueless, and resentful of me (he divided and conquered) until about 3 years ago, when she needed someone to talk to and turned to me, as a last resort. I am now her first resort and we have about 30 years of sisterliness to catch up on!

Oh, I am sorry. But if I wrote out all the I am now aware that he has done over eh years nobody would believe me: from widow wobbling his MIL (£30K the year after her DH died "Doesn't she know what an investment is? You don't get that back until the business is sold!") to almost succeeding in selling me a defunct business, £150K debts, to stave of his own bankruptcy - and they aren't the worst examples, others are much more personal betrayals.

Just rejoice if you don't have one. Billys colour your life, like an indelible stain!

Yep.... yesterday over food that Rick & I bought for everyone, we were told all about how he was so sorry to see a “restoration project” very rare sports car go a few years ago for just £30k, but he had all manner of excuses as to why he couldn’t hold onto it and how he kicks himself for not being able to restore it from it’s no-engine she’ll, and see the huge profit it would’ve made. (Never mind the very cost of such an undertaking would have been untenable for him and that he doesn’t seem to have ever finished a “project” in his life).

Meanwhile at the time he was living in his mother’s home rent free at that time and letting her pay for his existence to the degree she was overspending her own meagre income each month. He had a £30k lump sum, regardless of the net profit! We were all and it was just too hard to say anything without being confrontational, but it’s always stories like this, how he’s missed out on that big opportunity, how the universe is against him etc.

Rather than seeing, like anyone else would, that perhaps some of that £30k would have been welcome to help feed and care for his mother, he bought more “stuff” with it. Not that she would ever have asked for it. Obviously.

Billy is grade A tool