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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Family Drama

136 replies

PossiblyPFB · 28/05/2018 23:21

Sorry this is going to be a long one........Looking for some advice on how to deal with a very tricky family situation. Obviously there are nuances I can’t go into as would be here all night writing up the crazy!

I’ve written this with my sibling as we are facing this together and looking to receive some no-BS AIBU views from people not emotionally involved!

The players involved..... (not real names)
“Mary” : DGM, elderly widow, 97 years old and in failing health.
“Billy” ,Her middle son, “The starving artist” mid-60 something. Presently of no fixed abode. Has resided with Mary rent free for many years.
“Karen” second eldest and only daughter. “The Martyr”.
“Bob”, Karen’s husband.
Rick & Shelly- Karen & Bob’s adult kids (us)

Basically the current situation is as follows. Mary is on her deathbed. Karen and Bob have been caring for her in their home now for 18m, taking care of everything from bills to physical care, meals, doctors appointments, management of her finances leading to positive savings, medications, bathing, toiletting, cleansing, nighttime wakings, helping to sell her home, etc.

They now receive some respite care through a hospice service but for the first 13 months received no help and literally put their lives on hold to care for a very frail lady. They recently helped Mary to sell her home in order to receive that hospice help and free up her estate.

Over the years Billy and two other brothers have taken advantage of Mary in a variety of ways and have led lives which would be too extensive to go through and tangential, but which could form the basis of a mediocre Jackie Collins novel. Karen has never asked for or received any monetary (or much emotional for that matter) support from Mary, who in comparison has always absolutely worshipped the ground her 3 sons have walked on.

Since the recent sale of Mary’s home, Billy has become effectively homeless. Despite having lived rent free with Mary for many years, he did not help with any of her care and did not help her to keep an orderly, clean, sanitary home. Billy has a large warehouse where he keeps his “treasures” and personal collections of “stuff” (hoarder who keeps things of no value). He also has recently taken a rental on a shop front. However he has not prioritised obtaining a home of his own.

The crux of the situation we are now facing is this: Billy feels he has been treated very badly indeed by Karen in “making him homeless”. Billy vocalises this to anyone he meets including Karen’s adult children. Billy has a habit of squatting if he’s invited to stay, sleeping on the sofa, not helping with any care or household aspects, not showering, simply watching tv all day, all while criticising Karen and Bob, eating all the food and generally being unpleasant and ungrateful. He has a victim mentality and expects to be taken care of and not to have to take responsibilities for his own life. He also will not leave until an argument ensues when he is asked to leave and he strops off.

The present situation is this: Mary is (we think) in her last days. She is completely bedridden and has become delusional. It’s very stressful and the care aspect is constant. She sometimes doesn’t recognise Karen but asks for Billy and her other sons constantly. Karen is also very resentful of being left caring for her mother while her brothers have done nothing practical to help, but who are the apples of Mary’s eye.

Billy has proposed to come and stay again to visit Mary in her last days/weeks/months. While they certainly want to ensure Billy has access to Mary in her final days, Karen and Bob do not want Billy to physically stay in their home again because it will add a huge stress to a very trying time. There has been a lot of conflict in the past because of fundamental personality differences and this would not be healthy.

Billy will try passive aggressive and overtly aggressive tactics to work his way into their home again.

The options we can see (and why they’ve been dismissed) are:

  1. let Billy stay with Karen & Bob (not desirable as above)
  2. let Billy stay with Rick (Rick’s wife is pregnant and needs to avoid stress. Also Shelly is visiting from out of town and staying with them already to be out of the way)
  3. Billy sleeps in his van in Karen & Bob’s driveway (not ideal as he will do it if another solution isn’t provided for him)

So- Karen, Rick, Mary & Shelly fund a hotel room nearby for Billy to keep him out of their homes. That’s where we are at and will likely do for him. But it feels completely annoying to provide - again- for Billy when as a 60 something grown-ass man he hasn’t prioritised his own financial security over many years to be able to afford to do this for himself.

AIBU that there doesn’t seem to be another solution? How would you handle this? How can we offer access without having him come in and squat for an indeterminate time period? Thanks for any ideas!!

OP posts:
teaandtoast · 29/05/2018 01:56

What's to stop Billy rocking up after GM goes and trying to stay with any of you?
What a tricky situation. Flowers

NotMyFirstRodeo · 29/05/2018 01:59

How much money is left from the house sale and is it in a joint account between Karen and Mary? What is left after paying respite and planning future funeral costs? What does the will say, who is executor and if now with dementia, who has current responsibility for her, Karen?
If it really is weeks rather than months and you know that Billy is going to inherit a quarter(?) or third(?) of the remaining funds...can you not get something legal signed whereby he has an advance with which he pays for an air b+b but it comes from his share after probate.
Also having just watched Lady In the Van they need to put a SORN car on the drive pronto.

NotMyFirstRodeo · 29/05/2018 02:06

Also for the love of God, your Mum needs to make sure all monies are accounted for as if two are litigious and Gran had dementia, you can bet there will be hassle - so sorry for being insensitive, I am aware she is still alive. Flowers
Incidentally and not because he gets sympathy from me, you were lucky to get Billy to agree to the sale of the house as he probably did have legal (whether immoral or not) recourse to stay.

farangatang · 29/05/2018 02:14

OMG! What is it with these feckless man-children who can't take responsibility for themselves. You could be describing what happened with my father's family and is currently happening with my mum's!

Billy is old enough to sort himself out (and having lived rent-free for so many years, is probably not so hard up as he likes to appear).

He is going to badmouth Karen and anyone else who doesn't pander to his own story about himself. Let him. He's an adult who is responsible for himself. Be glad the house managed to be sold to pay for Mary's care - my mum's brother is still hanging on to my grandmother's house claiming it's his right to stay as he has lived there so long - and the law seems to support him. Never mind who will look after his mother. It's disgusting and I have no empathy for ANY CF who uses and abuses their parent like that.

Billy needs a bit of 'tough love'. And I truly hope he doesn't cause issues for the rest of the family during these final weeks/months of Mary's life and afterwards, but it wouldn't surprise me that someone so utterly self-centred and entitled would. Batten the hatches, family!

lljkk · 29/05/2018 02:29

I'm impressed, OP. Long, but very clear.
If Billy asked for this option, I imagine I'd let Billy stay in his own van on the driveway; why should K+B fork out for a hotel? Or would the hotel bill come out of Mary's estate & be adjusted for later? I'm not sure that inheritance can of worms has been mentioned. I wouldn't let him in my home.

Re inheritance: There's a lot in OP about feckless uncles, but really have to put that past, & go with whatever is in M's will about asset dispersal. She wanted them in her life like that.

PossiblyPFB · 29/05/2018 02:50

There really won’t be a great deal to inherit at this point & I believe it’s split 3 ways between those to the exclusion of the one who is NC (...he already had more than his share). Thankfully an independent accountant is overseeing everything and Karen has PoA and is taking advice.

OP posts:
shakingmyhead1 · 29/05/2018 02:55

Thankfully an independent accountant is overseeing everything and Karen has PoA and is taking advice
thank goodness, Karen is sort of protected if Billy kicks up a stink about how much hes getting ( or thinks he should get), the accountant can back her up and prove where it all went!
Good thinking Karen!

NotMyFirstRodeo · 29/05/2018 03:24

Okay...but will his 'third' cover a month's accommodation? if yes, ask accountant and lawyer to sign over 500 quid now and tell him that's his inheritance/rent money. Or he lives in his van off-road. But you do know he will sit with his mum from 7am-midnight best case. Is a hospice a possibility now? And just say no re sofasurfing?

farangatang · 29/05/2018 03:33

PossiblyPFB I don't want to alarm you in what is already a stressful situation, but do be aware that the one excluded from the will (who has already had more than his 'fair share') is legally entitled to contest the will for being excluded and will most likely still receive a share as ordered by the courts.

This is what happened to my dad with two siblings who were not included in the will (as my grandfather had already bought them their houses and the entire family knew that this was supposed to be in lieu of an 'inheritance'!). Courts can overrrule a will. I hope the NC relative is not aware they can contest the will. Do not underestimate the power of some people's greed.

CatRen27 · 29/05/2018 03:48

Omg this is all so crazy. As pp have said, Billy is on his own, doesn't stay with any of you but can come for a visit at prearranged times. If he is homeless after all this time it is not your responsibility. Don't be bullied/ emotionally blackmailed. He's not a child, he's a grown man who won't take care of himself. Suggestions of a camp site or funds out of inheritance to fund hotel costs sound great. Perhaps direct him to welfare options available through the local authority.

Seriously, be firm, focus on Mary and remember Billy is not your responsibility. He will continue to be a parasite until forced to do orherwise.

Shadow666 · 29/05/2018 04:27

My brother is a Billy, so I understand the situation well.

  1. Don’t let him stay with any of you or on your drives. It’s not your problem

  2. You definitely can claim loans back to the estate, so if you do advance him money draw up a contract.

  3. You just have to ignore the bad mouthing. Everyone must know what he’s like anyway, so just try not to let it get to you.

I hope things aren’t too stressful Flowers

TheShapeOfEwe · 29/05/2018 06:46

I agree with PPs that Billy should be dealing with his accommodation himself. But I am also aware that insisting on that might not be possible. If it isn't, I think your solution of the hotel room is the best compromise but I would make sure Billy knows that regardless of how long Mary has left, the hotel room will only be funded for a pre-agreed length of time.

I'm so sorry for you all - what a horrible situation Flowers

FreeMantle · 29/05/2018 07:52

How is Billy paying for the large warehouse and shop front?
I think his mothers death will hit him hard. He's not a drinker is he?

BrownTurkey · 29/05/2018 08:37

'Glad to see you at this sad time. On this occasion we are not able to put you up - things in our relationship with you and family life have changed - however here is a small contribution towards paying for a hotel room for a night or whatever you decide to do.' Bung in a tenner each, and resist taking any more responsibility for him. Any arguments 'it is not possible for you to stay', 'we can't put you up', 'we can't help'.

PossiblyPFB · 29/05/2018 12:56

Thanks everyone. Yes I think her death will hit Billy very hard. Rick and I were discussing last night and we think he will just disappear after we cannot see him wanting to spend time with Karen and Bob once Mary is no longer there.

Karen has her own issues with the whole situation but she’s happy in knowing that she’s done the right thing by Mary despite her own feelings. A lot of anger and resentment which has been put on hold and will have to be dealt with at a later date. For now she’s had to put this aside to cope.

There is no worry about the NC brother as he has a court judgment against him to pay money back that prevents him from counter suing. The amount he owes pales in comparison to what he would stand to inherit now so we can’t see him fighting for it.

Rick and I are looking for inexpensive hotel rooms to take this off Karen’s plate as we can’t see another way. She’s just beside herself and doesn’t need this right now. Somewhere not too comfortable!! If we don’t, he seriously will make good on parking his van in the drive and be knocking on either Karen or Rick’s doors for food and a bathroom. And then just add more drama about how he’s being ‘treated’ by us all when we (and he) should all only focus on Mary. So frustrating. He IS the definition of a feckless man-child.

Honestly perhaps someday Rick and I will write a book about all this, honestly this issue an isolated incident - and the tip of a 70 year iceberg!

OP posts:
kissthealderman · 29/05/2018 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Armchairanarchist · 29/05/2018 14:01

Billy is a parasite. I wouldn't offer him any support whatsoever. You and your family have enough on your plates.

teaandtoast · 29/05/2018 14:04

I wouldn't put the hotel room in your name or pay by card. What if Billy wrecks it or doesn't want to leave?

Wildlingofthewest · 29/05/2018 14:06

Billy and his living situation is not your concern. Stop allowing it to be!
Where he stays is not for you to worry about so stop thinking about it!
He isn’t staying at your house. Don’t offer it, even for a night, don’t make any reference to it and don’t ask any questions regarding where he is staying. It’s not your problem, don’t bring it up.

eggcellent · 29/05/2018 14:09

Why are you making it your problem? Say he can't stay with you, where he goes from there is up to him.

AdaColeman · 29/05/2018 14:16

You are just prolonging the agony by helping Billy find a hotel and paying for it. The longer you protect him and provide for him, the easier it will be for him to manipulate you, and the harder for you to break away.

You have joined in Karen and Billy's game of dependency, manipulation and co-dependency, and are now responsible for Billy.

Just stop playing the game. Read a book called "Games People Play". You will recognise yourself and all the other family members in it.

AdaColeman · 29/05/2018 14:19

If Rick's wife is reading this, be warned, you could soon be looking after a new baby and Uncle Billy!

Tistheseason17 · 29/05/2018 14:20

Why can't he pay for his own hotel?

He clearly has money with a warehouse and a shop.

Book the hotel and tell him he's paying.

You're not martyrs, more like mugs and I bet he loves it watching you all bend over backwards.

If Mary meant SOOO much he'd get himself sorted.

I think Mary's expected inheritance means SOOOO much.....

PragmaticWench · 29/05/2018 14:22

I think the campsite suggestion is a very good idea, as Billy has a van already.

Wildlingofthewest · 29/05/2018 14:22

Why do you need to book a hotel for him? For goodness sake! Stop treating him like a child.