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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Family Drama

136 replies

PossiblyPFB · 28/05/2018 23:21

Sorry this is going to be a long one........Looking for some advice on how to deal with a very tricky family situation. Obviously there are nuances I can’t go into as would be here all night writing up the crazy!

I’ve written this with my sibling as we are facing this together and looking to receive some no-BS AIBU views from people not emotionally involved!

The players involved..... (not real names)
“Mary” : DGM, elderly widow, 97 years old and in failing health.
“Billy” ,Her middle son, “The starving artist” mid-60 something. Presently of no fixed abode. Has resided with Mary rent free for many years.
“Karen” second eldest and only daughter. “The Martyr”.
“Bob”, Karen’s husband.
Rick & Shelly- Karen & Bob’s adult kids (us)

Basically the current situation is as follows. Mary is on her deathbed. Karen and Bob have been caring for her in their home now for 18m, taking care of everything from bills to physical care, meals, doctors appointments, management of her finances leading to positive savings, medications, bathing, toiletting, cleansing, nighttime wakings, helping to sell her home, etc.

They now receive some respite care through a hospice service but for the first 13 months received no help and literally put their lives on hold to care for a very frail lady. They recently helped Mary to sell her home in order to receive that hospice help and free up her estate.

Over the years Billy and two other brothers have taken advantage of Mary in a variety of ways and have led lives which would be too extensive to go through and tangential, but which could form the basis of a mediocre Jackie Collins novel. Karen has never asked for or received any monetary (or much emotional for that matter) support from Mary, who in comparison has always absolutely worshipped the ground her 3 sons have walked on.

Since the recent sale of Mary’s home, Billy has become effectively homeless. Despite having lived rent free with Mary for many years, he did not help with any of her care and did not help her to keep an orderly, clean, sanitary home. Billy has a large warehouse where he keeps his “treasures” and personal collections of “stuff” (hoarder who keeps things of no value). He also has recently taken a rental on a shop front. However he has not prioritised obtaining a home of his own.

The crux of the situation we are now facing is this: Billy feels he has been treated very badly indeed by Karen in “making him homeless”. Billy vocalises this to anyone he meets including Karen’s adult children. Billy has a habit of squatting if he’s invited to stay, sleeping on the sofa, not helping with any care or household aspects, not showering, simply watching tv all day, all while criticising Karen and Bob, eating all the food and generally being unpleasant and ungrateful. He has a victim mentality and expects to be taken care of and not to have to take responsibilities for his own life. He also will not leave until an argument ensues when he is asked to leave and he strops off.

The present situation is this: Mary is (we think) in her last days. She is completely bedridden and has become delusional. It’s very stressful and the care aspect is constant. She sometimes doesn’t recognise Karen but asks for Billy and her other sons constantly. Karen is also very resentful of being left caring for her mother while her brothers have done nothing practical to help, but who are the apples of Mary’s eye.

Billy has proposed to come and stay again to visit Mary in her last days/weeks/months. While they certainly want to ensure Billy has access to Mary in her final days, Karen and Bob do not want Billy to physically stay in their home again because it will add a huge stress to a very trying time. There has been a lot of conflict in the past because of fundamental personality differences and this would not be healthy.

Billy will try passive aggressive and overtly aggressive tactics to work his way into their home again.

The options we can see (and why they’ve been dismissed) are:

  1. let Billy stay with Karen & Bob (not desirable as above)
  2. let Billy stay with Rick (Rick’s wife is pregnant and needs to avoid stress. Also Shelly is visiting from out of town and staying with them already to be out of the way)
  3. Billy sleeps in his van in Karen & Bob’s driveway (not ideal as he will do it if another solution isn’t provided for him)

So- Karen, Rick, Mary & Shelly fund a hotel room nearby for Billy to keep him out of their homes. That’s where we are at and will likely do for him. But it feels completely annoying to provide - again- for Billy when as a 60 something grown-ass man he hasn’t prioritised his own financial security over many years to be able to afford to do this for himself.

AIBU that there doesn’t seem to be another solution? How would you handle this? How can we offer access without having him come in and squat for an indeterminate time period? Thanks for any ideas!!

OP posts:
RhiWrites · 29/05/2018 14:33

Book the hotel.

Don't think of it as something you are buying for the feckless uncle. Think of it as buying respite from his importunities. It's annoying but it is the last annoyance and Mary will love to see him.

Think of it this way, if her dying wish was to hug a smelly pig, you'd find a pig and you'd have to stable it somewhere.

Just book the hotel room and clear your mind of the worry.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/05/2018 14:36

My own father is something of a Billy and I have no doubt that if DSis or I ever said no to one of his 'family' requests he would just turn up and make himself objectionable. That is what Billy's do. There is no way of deterring them, they have hides like rhinocerous and no compunction about putting family members out, a lot.

They are masters of emotional blackmail, selective hearing, brass neckdness and playing theinnocent or the martyr extremely convincingly. The only defense against a Billy is geographical distance!

And mine is moving back to the UK as we speak Confused

Wildlingofthewest · 29/05/2018 14:36

He can book his own bloody hotel room for the love of god!
He’s behaving like a baby because they are all pandering to him and doing everything for him
If he wants to see his mum he will pull his head out of his arse and organise his own accommodation and everything else’s - like a grown up.
The more you do for him,the more he will carry on taking advantage.
Just stop!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/05/2018 14:38

You don't have a Billy in your life, do you wilding ?

At 64 he is fully cognisant of what he is doing and he won't stop. If OPs family don't arrange something else he will just arrive and refuse to leave! And he will make an absolute scene if they try to put him out.

That's how Billy's operate!

Wildlingofthewest · 29/05/2018 14:41

No I don’t - because I’m not a push over and I don’t let people walk all over me and then complain about their actions whilst enabling them to carry on!!!

You don’t want someone in your home? You call the damn police!!

MiggledyHiggins · 29/05/2018 14:45

He's got a van. Book a campsite for him and if he wants to upgrade, then he can sort it.

TheNoseyProject · 29/05/2018 14:49

Can karen’s Neighbours/friends park in her drive and on the road either side of it? When billy appears ask where he’s staying and be blunt ‘where are you staying as you of course know you cannot stay here.’ You and Rick can say these things, you aren’t kids.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/05/2018 14:52

because I’m not a push over and I don’t let people walk all over me Sadly some of us were raised by Billy's, and Mary's, and find it very hard to overcome our basic training. Smile

Usernameunknown2 · 29/05/2018 15:03

Don't book him anything unless you want to pay when he puts things on the room and refuses to leave.

winterisstillcoming · 29/05/2018 15:04

Are Karen and Mary determined that Mary's end of life's care is at Karen's house? Is there hospice provision that may be suitable, then Billy can visit on neutral ground. This was done for my GM in law and worked out quite well as well as the practicalities being taken care of and family had access without my MIL being a gatekeeper.

KurriKurri · 29/05/2018 15:04

I think everyone just says no when Billy tries to freeload.
Don't let him in the house. and don't pay for a hotel - why the hell should you ?
Everyone else has managed to sort themselves out regarding being there when the grandmother dies (and sounds like you have come a long way OP) if everyone else can do it so can Billy.

'No you can't stay here, you'll have to sort yourself out we're all too busy'
is the sentence everyone needs to be practising.

Poor Karen - the story of the only daughter being left to look after the ailing parent while the parent idolises the ones who won't lift a finger for her is sadly very common.

My priorities here would be

  1. elderly dying lady
  2. Karen
  3. Rick's pregnant wife
  4. Rick, and Shelly
5.Bob
  1. anyone else who isn't a complete tit

7 Billy.

Roussette · 29/05/2018 15:09

I would buy him a cheap one man tent and book him into a campsite. He can wash and do whatever he's got to do, it's summer he won't freeze. Sorted.

PossiblyPFB · 29/05/2018 15:19

@curiousaboutsamphire you’ve hit the nail on the head!

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/05/2018 15:47

I'd laugh, Possibly but mine really is called Billy and he really is an emotional drain. DSis and I are trying to negotiate our emotional response to him living int he same country as us again... it has been unpleasant realising how much we had relied on the geographical distance to do the adult thing for us... we're in our 50s too Sad

I hope you can all work out a way to deal with your Billy. You really don't need that kind of additional emotional burden.

QuackPorridgeBacon · 29/05/2018 16:23

I’m not condoning anything Billy has done and my advice is to all say no. If he won’t leave then cal the police. Can Mary be moved into a hospice? Purely so he can visit without trying to stay in someone’s home and being a pain. But, I can’t help but think Mary and anyone else who has let this go on for so long is hugely to blame. Yes he is a twat, but he’s a twat that has been allowed to be for an extremely long time. This isn’t a 30 year old who was living at mums rent free while working etc and being a lazy twat along with it, this man is 60. Must be hard to break out of a habit no one has pulled him up on for 60 fucking years. He’s been enabled his whole damn life.

Roystonv · 29/05/2018 16:45

I think the point the op is making is they do not want to teach Billy anything or change his ways atm but just take the weight of dealing with him and his demands off Karen at this difficult time (op has said he will probably vanish after the death). In view of this and that Mary has not long to live I would go with the plan to give him cash for a basic hotel.

Wildlingofthewest · 29/05/2018 16:56

But he doesn’t need money from them for a hotel - he has his own money! I can’t believe this is actually even up for debate - he’s a grown up man for fucks sake!!!!!!! Why is this even a concern for the OP? She doesn’t want him in her house to stay - fine. That’s the end of it. What he does/where he stays/how he pays for it and how he books it are absolutely not the concern of the OP. I honestly wouldn’t even be taking time to think about it! Do you think “Billy” is thinking about any of this...?! Nope.......

heateallthebuns · 29/05/2018 17:05

Who is billy going to complain about them too though? Doesn't sound like anyone would listen or believe him.

IsaidMrDarcynotArsey · 29/05/2018 17:36

Billy “ the shitters full “ Van de camp has enough money to rent a storefront. He might not be as green as he is cabbagey looking. ( where’s the money coming from ? ) He is offered restricted visiting hours. Nobody gives an inch. Hosting to an absolute minimum. Drink and toilet privileges only. Everyone supports Karen as she has no other choice than to facilitate Billy visiting Mary. This means if it looks like he’s settling in for the evening he is lured out of Karen’s property with the offer of a drink/meal in a local hostelry, he has to travel there under his own steam you part ways at that venue. Where he parks up is his problem. I suggest Karen has someone’s second car/friends RV/boat temporarily placed on her drive to physically prevent Billy from having drive access. Whatever you do now will be what Billy expects to happen moving forward - so set that bar really low! Now for the lighthearted section. ( This is the first time I have wished music was an option on posts - my mind is looping the theme of Soap as I read this ) Other family members may yet prove to be very useful : I am imagining Mr NC as a survivalist sort, sending Billy on vacation there after Mary shuffles off her mortal coil - using pooled hotel cash - may provide several entertaining outcomes. Perhaps Disney’s Sugar-mamma has a gender appropriate friend to lure Billy to fresh pastures. There’s got to be a book and a film out of this at least “ Free Billy “ is my suggested working title, it works on so many levels! Seriously I wish you luck in dealing with this difficult situation at such a sad time. Have a big unmumsnetty hug too !

RandomMess · 29/05/2018 17:48

Just send him a list of cheap accommodation and campsites...

Seriously you could end up with him damaging property etc.

Ancientmummyofwooooos · 29/05/2018 17:57

Billy is going to have to learn to stand on his own two feet at sometime, think that time is now. Billy will find it hard, but really it is for the very best. Sorry you are all in this predicament

SandAndSea · 29/05/2018 18:07

I would book him into a campsite (or give him the number).

I would also secure the drive.

Whisky2014 · 29/05/2018 18:13

Contact billy and say "you cannot stay at karens. Sort out accomodation for yourself".

It's not hard!

zippey · 29/05/2018 18:14

I’d say let Billy sort out his own accommodation but that’s not really fair on Billy. If he’s like this and in his 60’s then he’s institutionalised and the culprits are the people who have enabled him to be this way.

I wouldn’t want him in my house though. Maybe there’s an out house or his van or camping in a park.

seven201 · 29/05/2018 19:03

I know you're very involved and especially Karen must feel some kind of obligation to Billy, but she shouldn't. He's not a teenager, he's made his bed and has to lie in it. It is not Karen's problem how Billy visits Mary. She should not feel any guilt - he is not her responsibility. So what if he moans to everyone about how you've all treated him - bet no-one would blame you as they'll know what he's like.