To want to meet my niece?

[AsIfIWish]

My brother’s girlfriend had her first baby 3 weeks ago. All her family has met her and held her, on day 1. None of my family except my mum (once) have been allowed to. We have all, including my mum, been told we are not allowed to visit, but that they will ‘let us know’ when they are ready to see us. We thought maybe a week or two in, at least, but no... DM thought maybe they just didn't want visitors but they won't come see any of us either. And it's not like she's scared of leaving the house, because they've gone off to a couple of places that are miles away already. Even my Dad hasn’t met his grandchild yet, as he was away the day after she was born which is when my mum was invited to go.

I never try to prescribe how anyone’s behaviour should be, but I am finding this extremely hurtful and upsetting. I have a good relationship with my brother and get on ok with his girlfriend (although we are very different). None of our family can understand why they are being like this. DB is quite under his GFs thumb which doesn’t help, i.e. everything is clearly decided and organised before any event or decision, and my impression is that he wants to go along with it so as to not hurt her feelings, which is lovely, but honestly, seems to be at the expense of everyone else, particularly in this case.

Obviously I understand that having a baby is a massive thing, and that we all cope (or don’t cope, in my case!) in different ways, but the baby is my brother's baby too, not just hers! I just don’t know what to do, if anything...

stressbucket

I don't think it's cruel if for some reason one of the parents really, really does not like the grandparents. There must be a valid reason for OP's brother to be supporting his wife. I think that OP really needs to find out from her brother what that reason is.

Sometimes I hear my Granny doing her Best James Herriot farmer impression and saying "EEEeeeeeeee By eckerslike! There's nowt so queer as folk" when you get into these threads. People are just that. bloody complicated. Especially when babies come into the mix. THey go all tribal and hunker down.

However - They prob won't hunker down forever & on that basis I really hope you meet your little niece soon OP. Your SiL does IMO sound a bit like she'd put barriers up, but without talking to her or your DB yourself about why (and now probably isnt' that time) you'll probably just have to imagine why what or wherefore.

My XFiL came when DD1 was very new, asked me if I'd made any cake, and his Mrs told me I had a lot of baby weight still to lose. It was still during paternity leave 2 weeks so that was SOOO WELCOME haha.

@rainingcatsanddog You have ignored the third possibility, which I hypothesised in my earlier post, that the brother is a victim of coercive or controlling behaviour. Or is that not possible because he is a man?

The OP says that the relationship with her brother is good, he sees his parents sometimes and that he prioritises her feelings over extended family because he's "under her thumb" which suggests head in sand rather than abused imo.

We are going through something very similar op. My bil g.f had twins. They didn't tell any of us until they were 4 days old. My mil has seen them once we haven't seen them at all.

I don’t understand why people do this. They usually moan further down the line that they get ‘no support’ from family too. I’ve always welcomed visitors post birth, I love that there are so many people that love my kids and are excited to meet my newborn. It’s natural for family to want to see a newborn and it doesn’t hinder bonding at all. For the hour visit, I’ve got 23 more in that day to bond.

@LightDrizzle This happened over 20 years ago when I was a teenager. My mum's a long time dead even though I'm in my 40s. It has only been in the last 10 years or so have I realised how toxic her behaviour was to me and other people in the family, and this has been backed up by my SIL who tried to do the right thing.

Anyway OP when are you going to call and have a chat with your brother? Stop going through your mum as your relationship with your brother doesn't depend on her as you are both adults.

But there are a lot of threads on MN where the mother says that she's happy for her own mother to come and visit straight after the birth but that she can't face having the in-laws round. And the mother usually gets support and told that obviously it's easier with her own mum, who'll be helpful and supportive.

Well your mother is stirring it for starters! She shouldn't be relaying conversations to the rest of you!

Honestly it sounds like your family HAVEN'T respected her boundaries in the past which is why she feels the need to be clear and assertive AND why your brother is supporting her (as he should! That's his primary family now not you, your parents and siblings).

I strongly suspect by saying he's 'under her thumb' what you really mean is he's no longer dancing to your family's tune!

The way you talk about your relationship with her sounds like you really don't like her but are being careful with what you say here because you have no real cause not to like her. Sounds like this is likely obvious to her and she and your brother don't need the added stress at a difficult time. 3 weeks is still VERY early on especially if there were complications, but even if not most mothers still feel very vulnerable this soon after birth.

Given you don't have a close relationship with her it's not really surprising.

Talk to your brother if you wish but don't put pressure on and LISTEN as well as talking, you might learn what her/their reasons are and may be able to reassure her or even be invited round. (But don't invite yourself).

So comments from Troels and others such as Time your Db grew a pair. are out of order.

Not really. My DB wasn't having this from my SIL.

People who try and control...do it to those who can be controlled.

She's equally his child and it's not right to keep one side of the family away like this.

I would never have kept my in-laws from seeing their DGC and DN.

I don't think OP comes across as having had a dislike of sil prior to this. I think her view of sil is now coloured by the fact that as a family they have all been kept away from the baby while sil's oen family hsve been welcomed. That is bound to cause bad feeling, even if it didn't exist before.

It's fine for sil to want her own family more and to not want overnight visitors or just to want some space immediately after the birth. But, barring sil being really ill (which she appears not to be as they have bern out and about) or ILs having historically behaved really badly, 3 weeks without letting half the baby's family meet her, is mean and wrong and will alienate them in the long term.

or ILs having historically behaved really badly

This is what is being queried though, and OP has not addressed it. We do not know what OP's mother has actually been saying, and we do not have any indication about how they have treated the SIL, but surely there has been some dubious behaviour for the SIL and brother to be acting this way.

This is all being attributed to SIL but thats because she is an easier target then admitting dbrother just isnt that bothered or might not want family or DM has caused upset. Those last three things aren't ones anyone likes to dwell on or admit.

How would everyone react if the sexes in this situation was reversed? So the father's family had been to see the baby but the mother's family were not allowed. Would people still be ok with this?

SandyY2K

I don't think 3 weeks is at all unusual. If Hubby and I are able to have more children, I would like my IL's to wait 2-3 months before they come. My rationale is that they live in the UK and we are in Canada. I would like baby to have had first shots before they come from abroad in a germy airplane.

We have a similar situation OP. 8 weeks and counting here and none of our side of the family has been allowed to meet the baby. All her family has met baby. SIL has issues. The best way to gauge whether it’s her or you is to look at whether there is a pattern of disputes outside your own family. My SIL has had similar issues at work, with friends and with her own wider family so it’s fair to assume that this is just her issue. Whilst it’s very hurtful it’s not personal she does it to everyone and also in some ways you are better off free from the drama. I also see this enforced distance as it protecting my own family too (theyve been treated badly in the past by DB and SIL).

On the other hand If your family r the only ones she has issues with then find out what the problem is and stop doing it ASAP!

Have you had any news from them recently (directly I mean NOT via your Mum!)?

Sorry for the delay in posting. (Half term...)

Lots of things I'd like to reply to, plus something even more weird that has happened since I last posted.

I had spoken to DB directly several times before posting here (and messaged GF too) but our working hours clash so actually phoning is tricky (often work nights), so it's mostly been texts. So when I get extra info from my mum, it's because she has had time to phone DB regularly to check how he/they are getting on, so she's got a bigger picture than me as DB is pretty brief in texts (blood from a stone), and the GF is tricky to talk to without offending (at least, that's how I feel). I can't be natural around her because she finds things to criticise or be offended by. In terms of DM having done something wrong, DM can definitely take things the wrong way (and I am an expert in spotting this when she tells me things later on and point out that actually SHE might be unreasonable one) but she's one of these people who finds it impossible to not be genuinely nice to someone even if she has been really hurt by them/dislikes them hugely etc, so I find it hard to believe she's upset them. It's more likely that I have and don't know about it!

Also, the reason that my mum passes things on is because there are quite a few of us (I'm one of 7) and it's usually just easier. It's worked for us so far, and I'm in my 30s!

I think our family is quite different from the GF and not necessarily on the same wavelength, but we're always nice to each other. Weirdly though, early on in the relationship for ages the GF thought my mum didn't like her, even though she did, of course. DM felt she was always having to prove herself! In the end the GF 'came round' to the idea and decided that "oh, she does like me after all." Why? Because my mum took her to hospital once for a minor emergency... the sort of thing DM would actually do for anyone, not just those she liked!

MaverickSnoopy
"My two pence worth. Text your DB and offer to drop round a meal. Say that you know that they don't want visitors and you don't plan to come in, but just wanted to show some support. Then see what happens"
crispysausagerolls
"I don’t think this is a great idea - they will feel beholden to OP and uncomfortable if they don’t let her in, so will pressurised to do so."

...this is exactly why I haven't been round. I feel like they will feel that I am thrusting myself upon them, even if I literally give them a meal and leave. i feel like we're forbidden to go to their house. They only live 15 mins away...

thecatsarecrazy How sad Twins are even more special (I have them)...how can people do that?

Oh, so the other thing that has happened. DM always opens an account for grandchildren. Very generously starts off with £1.5k with the proviso that primarily it's to be used for driving lessons when they come of age. So she primed DB about this and that they might want to get an extra birth certificate as she'll need to borrow one to open an account. DB was fine with this, and they got 3 certificates I believe.

Later on, DM reminds DB that she would like a copy and tells him a bit more about why. Again, he's fine with this. Perfectly happy talking about it (on his own) to her. So they arrange for him to drop it by on his way home from work the next day or two.

However, before this could happen, DB phones up DM (clearly after talking to GF) and says, "I'm not sure we can do the account thing. GF has had problems with trust funds in the past and not got the money when she should've done." DM points out that it's not a trust fund, it's an accessible account under her name re:child's name. Plus, why would you refuse an extremely generous offer of money that you wouldn't have otherwise? You can't lose!

DB seems to think that this could cause a problem with GF, and says, "Well, don't do it for now..." DM is pretty astounded, especially after DB has relied on her fairly heavily financially at several points in his life! It's like he thinks he can't make his own decision...

DM has told him that she's doing it on Wed (when she's already in town anyway) and if he hasn't decided by then, she's not doing it.

Poor DN...

I think I’m starting to see why GF might be struggling with your family. Your DM shouldn’t put pressure on the account thing (or anything else!) at the moment. I’ve actually had something similar happen to me with DC and I did find it very odd. I’d never heard of it before. First I knew was because I caught DH sneaking off with the birth certificate. I found it weird (and still find it weird) that someone can open an account with my DC name without my permission (DH would have given them the birth certificate without me knowing if I hadn’t caught him) for all I know they could be using it for their own money but wanting a preferential children’s interest rate. I was also suspicious about whether the money would come with strings attached. We also had planned to open the same account for DC but bank only allows one per child. And tbh baby’s Mum is busy with other things 3 weeks after birth so just leave this account thing for now. As you say her family is very different to yours so I think you need to be understanding of that. ‘Oh we don’t want to do anything that would make GF feel uncomfortable the offer stands if you change your mind’ If all else fails DM can give the money to DN when she turns 17 so she won’t loose out by not having an account unless your DM wishes her too.

summerthunder I do find it odd that she's putting pressure on them about it, but she says it's just another slap in the face for her. They have been so unbelievably rude to all of us but especially her DB should know that my DM puts money into accounts for all the grandchildren and afaik it's the same that she did for us, her kids, and we've all received ours gratefully.

I guess I just think it's odd that he would refuse money, and only after talking to GF, when it's one of the few things my DM can offer at her age and relative frailty.

Yeah, what a terrible grandmother, putting away money for her grandchild. Not like driving lessons and university are expensive!

Im not surprised you DM is really upset. She should have been one of the first to meet the baby. I can see how the account thing would feel like another slap in the face. Does DBS GF like to control? If so maybe it’s the lack of control over the account that she is finding hard. The money won’t disappear just because it’s not in that account tho so I’d leave this until they get back to your DM or DN turns 17 and u can hand it over directly. In terms of meeting the baby I think you will have to do it entirely on their terms. It sounds like there’s a lot to sort out in terms of how GF interacts with your family and the baby is going to be stuck in the middle of it. Ultimately you can’t force the parents to give you access but it’s without a doubt very hurtful if they don’t and will have an impact on your relationship with them and how you think about them too and they will have to accept those consequences. I don’t think my family will meet DN for a long time yet so I know how you feel!

It's their child. It's their choice whether to accept the gift or not. If she's putting pressure on them, It's not a gift anymore.

People with no experience of families that overstep or who don't respect boundaries won't understand that money/gifts is sometimes used to make the person who's being impinged upon feel obligated to let them overstep.

Also op you keep saying "it works" for YOUR family. She hasn't grown up with your family and is bringing her life and experiences into this. It sounds like she's had bad experiences in relations to money matters so she may have reason to be wary.

I was nc with my father at one point, now lc (and regretting it), he tried using a similar account/financial gift to find out our address which at the time I really didn't want him to have.

Plus there's no rush to get the account opened and for your mum to say it HAS to happen this week or not at all is a bit 'off' to say the least. It's a bit "ultimatum" in approach - this will not help matters.

Re mum telling you all what's going on - I don't care if there's 20 of you, she's not reporting what's said neutrally let alone kindly but is being negative, so better not to do so at all! Eg saying something is "another slap in the face" - even IF gf is being as rude as claimed that's between her and gf, using it to set you (and I'm guessing other siblings) against her is BANG out of order!

In fact with SIX sets of aunts/uncles plus grandparents to manage I now understand a little more WHY brothers girlfriend is trying to keep things calm, because once ONE sibling visits you'll all expect to get your turn. That's pretty overwhelming.

"It's like he thinks he can't make his own decision..." You keep not getting this point

It's NOT just HIS decision, this relates to THEIR child, so if they're not BOTH in agreement he's right to delay at least. HIS having depended on your DM at other times is irrelevant. He may not even have explained it to her well, you don't know.

How has she been "unbelievably rude"?

You don't actually know because almost all your info is 3rd hand through your DM.

Stop taking your dm's word as gospel, give the gf space and stop making assumptions.

I wonder if they were up for the GFs family to visit and then realised its way more exhausting having visitors with a newborn than they thought it would be and decided to give themselves more alone time. People are allowed to change their minds.