To ask our British sisters for help?

[Hideandgo]

Repeal the 8th. You may not have a vote today but if you are willing, could you show support for the yes vote for us Irish women on social media? I’m sure many of you have Irish friends and if it encourages just one more person not to forget to vote it would be worth it.

I had a termination when I was 22 and felt deeply shocked and less than human when the Irish nurse told me ‘we don’t do that here’ when I asked about my choices. Luckily I was living abroad (just coincidently at home when I found out) so had one as soon as I got back to the country I was living in but I avoided tying myself to an increasingly abusive man who would have been able to take my baby from me and force me out of the country if he’d wished.

I credit my 4 beautiful children, my kind, supportive husband and my freedom to be the kind of Mum I always wanted to be from that decision.

So many Irish women have a loaded gun to their heads when they find out they are pregnant and it’s wrong to force them to become a Mum. This doesn’t even take into account all the mishandled miscarriages and devastating cases of foetal abnormality. Every woman is vulnerable to a miscarriage that doesn’t resolve immediately and Irish women have been forced to hold on to a dying heartbeat till they themselves have septicaemia and/or PTSD. It’s barbaric and wrong. And makes women feel useless and dehumanised.

Please help us.

Imagine if we didn't have access to abortion in England.
ALL the pregnancies ended in a live baby.
That would mean many, many babies waiting for adoption. Not the few waiting now who are snapped up by carefully vetted and assessed couples who have waited and planned and put everything into becoming adoptive parents.

What would happen to all of those babies while they waited and where would they wait?
We have a shortage of foster carers as it is.
What the hell would happen to the kids in care because of neglect, the older ones, they are hard to place now so they would stand a cats chance in hell if they were competing with all of the healthy little offspring of young mums.
What about the babies who weren't born healthy? Or white?

Where would they all go?

To homes. Where they would rot.

Just like the good old days.

I would suggest adoption as a humane alternative, although not at all an easy one. It balances the woman's desire not to be a mother with the child's right to life. It's probably the least bad outcome in a horrible situation

This is typical forced birther shit. There is nothing fucking humane in making a woman go through a pregnancy she does not want.

Yes Mrs DV and that is why I struggle to see the 'we should make abortion illegal' stance. Like, to an extent I understand the 'pro life' argument - those people believe life starts at conception and therefore abortion is akin to murder. I totally disagree with their point of view but.... I can see it.

But people who actively want abortion to be illegal? I mean from a purely practical view it is entirely unworkable in any sort of civilised society. There just would be nowhere for all the children to go.

I think part of the reason that Ireland has been able to have this abortion law for so long and they continue to do so in NI, is because a large part of the problem gets solved because women can travel to the UK. Everyone knew abortions were happening but they were able to turn a blind eye to it and certain people take some sort of moral high ground that it was illegal in their country.

@twofalls, your story is more common. You did the sensible thing. You started your dream job. Met somebody who was there for more than just a holiday. You had the two children you had. You were entitled to a life.

The reality is that single parenthood is so damn hard. My pregnancies weren't ''crisis pregnancies'' as I only left their father when they were toddlers but I know firsthand the obstacles single parents face and omg they are not small issues. They are huge. Financially, emotionally, practically, economically! I've lost so much opportunity. I am still single because (I think) I have zero freedom. Asking a woman to proceed with an unwanted pregnancy, it's a seriously BIG ASK and yet we have to read trite comments about lifestyle abortions. Like it's no big deal, swapping the sort of life where you have a relationship and a job and a family and friends, and you fit in, and you're not judged...... Asking people to go ahead with a pregnancy that will disadvantage them for TWO decades most likely, omg, the repercussions of that are huge.

Imagine if we didn't have access to abortion in England.
ALL the pregnancies ended in a live baby.

I think many unwanted pregnancies would end in back street abortions endangering the life of the woman and potentially rendering her infertile.

Absolutely. Both of you.

I could not have given up a baby for adoption. I just didn't want to be pg. now if people believe what I did was wrong, well they are entitled to their view. But to force me through pregnancy and birth to appease their moral sensibilities. That's just fucked up.

Thank you @CopONNotLinkedIn

And you have all my respect. 💐

Yes, making abortion illegal doesn't stop women doing it, so it's possible we'd have no more unwanted babies born than we do now, just around the same number of less safe abortions. Although women would die from those unsafe abortions, and some of those women would have older children they'd have nobody else to look after, so we'd need more adoptive parents for older, bereaved children instead. That would go well.

I keep posting this.

Abortion is illegal in Columbia, where there are 300,000 illegal abortions a year. Illegal abortion is the third cause of maternal mortality.

Abortion is legal in the UK, where there are 200,000 abortions a year. Resulting in 0 deaths.

Unless you love abortion and love women dying, you make abortion legal, safe and free.

Abortion is legal in the UK,

No, it isn't. It's legal in England, Scotland and Wales- Great Britain. Not Northern Ireland.

I don't want to derail the line of this thread, but this is important, and it seems there is hope of change. The front page article of The Sunday Times this morning is this - moves for a free vote in Parliament, rather than it being marooned as a devolved issue.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leading-tory-women-revolt-against-may-0c9nbvgll?shareToken=3f17ebfefb8005a3d289f0b89f40dd53

There's another thread with an obvious title re. Northern Ireland if anyone can think how to support this initiative.

I don’t think this is derailing the thread at all.

I’m so pleased for the women of Ireland but we must now fight for the women of Northern Ireland, and as part of the uk I feel it’s more of my fight that the republic was.

So - how do we do that?

Petition parliament. March on parliament for a start I guess.

I’m not sure how to fight but in the meantime I’ve come across this organisation which helps Irish women (inc NI women) to organise and travel for terminations.

www.asn.org.uk

Hopefully they won’t need to help any women from the ROI shortly and can put all resources into NI.

I took a look on the govt. petitions website. A couple of attempts at petitions to make abortion legal in NI were rejected (ie not allowed at all) because it was seen as a devolved issue (healthcare and justice ...hmph). However, presumably it should now be possible to open one as a human rights/free vote in Westminster issue?

Can we set up a new petition? I’ve already tweeted my MP but he’s a DUP clown.

And also women from NI should soon be able to go across the Irish border for treatment too, which isn't enough but it's better than it is now. Gives the option of a quicker journey, so will help women who can't get much time off work, caring responsibilities etc. I don't know yet whether any arrangement will be made to get them free treatment as with the NHS though. Most but not all women living in NI will be Irish citizens too.

For those wanting to know what they can do, get in touch with Alliance For Choice.

www.alliance4choice.com/

They are working for decriminalisation of abortion in NI. They're the pro-choice organisation doing campaigning work. They talk about pressuring Westminster, so people should consider writing to their MPs.

Abortion is legal in the UK

No, it isn't. It's legal in England, Scotland and Wales- Great Britain. Not Northern Ireland.

Actually, abortion isn’t technically legal anywhere in the UK. It’s permitted, up to 24 weeks, if 2 medical practitioners give their agreement that certain conditions have been met (risk of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or if the baby will be seriously handicapped). Women are not trusted to make the decision to abort their pregnancy themselves; we have to request permission to do so. It was an achievable workaround to existing legislation in 1967; it should all be overhauled now to respect women’s right to choose, not women’s right to seek permission.

as I understand it women in NI are entitled to free NHS abortions in GB so I cannot see any justification for abortion to still be illegal in NI.

In relative ignorance, I'm assuming that the reason abortion is illegal in NI was to match the situation in ROI, to make it harder for women in ROI to access abortions elsewhere. Is that the case or is there something else behind it?
Because if that's the biggest reason that it's illegal in NI, then there should be no barrier to changing it now.

I thought it was religion.
Just look at the DUP. Then remember that they form a coalition with the Conservatives that we are all meant to have forgotten.

Yes, religion is at the root of this. Probably restricting women's rights was about the only thing the Catholics and hard-line Protestants did agree on. Oh, and gay rights -I think NI allows civil partnerships now but not same-sex marriage, hopefully they'll catch up with the republic on that too.

The 1967 abortion act allowed exemptions to previous legislation, but did not extend to NI, where abortion is still illegal under 1861 offence against the persons act and 1945 criminal justice (Northern Ireland) act.

I’ve not RTFT yet but I’ve just been sent this link from the Scottish Irish abortion repeal campaign. The fight goes on for NI, write to your MP bpas.eaction.org.uk/lobby/54

Someone described the DUP as the provisional wing of the 17th Century.
I have family in Ireland and they have all been saying that the country is changing over the last decade or so.
Just need the illiberals in NI to get out of politics!