Ethics regarding Instamums and huns

[BurberryIsSo2000]

Homeisthecalm here, I think it's suitable to start a new ethics thread.

Since clearly, the one from yesterday isn't really about ethics but Clemmie.

Thanks all,

Keep it as nice or as stingy as you like

I'll start off by saying things should be clearly marked 'ad' or 'gifted'

Although the term gifted gives me the rage

I just googled Julie Myerson living with teenagers and there's an article about it on the Guardian website, interestingly, it ends with this statement..

"Since the identity of the children in Living With Teenagers is now known, we have removed the columns from the Guardian website to protect their privacy"

Protect their privacy, not a phrase some on instagram seem to be familiar with. The debate on using children in posts and ads is just going to continue to go on and on, it's a case of agreeing to disagree until the ASA catches up with the speed social media advertising is growing and issues clearer more comprehensive guidelines. I suspect when they do, it will involve limitations on the use of children, I doubt they will advocate a free for all.

Back in the day, we used to let the local police know when we were away on holiday so they could keep an eye on the house (was that an 80's thing?), now, I could pretty easily find out where people I follow live, where they're going, what they're packing, what flight they're on. If I was a burglar....

Yes, bear in mind this was 10 years ago! The anonymous column was great to read as it resonated with me as a mother but the fallout was horrific. Her children were really upset and no one had even seen them, let alone knew their names. 2 of my children are older teenagers and don't want anything to do with me on social media at all. People forget (or can't foresee) that older children/adults have their own opinions and identity. I have no interest in attacking mod/fod.. they're parents, they love their children. It is very hard, however, to see beyond kids that depend on you and you call the shots/make decisions and opinionated angry teenagers. In my view, contentious as it is, putting your kids on SM like this is asking for trouble. And I think that naivety is to blame NOT greed or anything else. Until my kids were teenagers I had no idea (stupidly) that they would have completely different opinions to me...

I remember that Living with Teenagers column. I really enjoyed reading it. One of the children was problematic in it and it was a very warts and all account. I think it damaged the child and mum’s relationship for some time.

I remember being mortified when I found out my mum and her hobby group were talking about me and my sibling going through puberty. We demanded they stop discussing us, aged 13 ish. If they carried on they were certainly more discreet and I do think my mum was shocked by the force of our upset. Teenagers have such a high sense of embarrassment. That was only a discussion within our house. I think a lot of people stop documenting as much of their tweens and teenagers for this reason. I know of a blogger who has referred vaguely to teenage difficulties but doesn’t go into detail.

Will the teenaged insta children be mortified by the posts of themselves as younger children, in retrospect? (I’m ignoring obvious issues like nudity, and only thinking of ‘silly’ photos etc). I think they might well be. On any overseas school trip, the passports and their photos are prime ribbing material. Many children I’ve known have gone to great lengths not to let their friends/classmates see and joke about their passport photo, simply because it is not flattering or shows them as younger.

Yes, I really enjoyed it too. It was well written and JM and the editors kept the children anonymous. When the kids found out they were not happy. If I was mod/fod I would disappear now, enjoy the earnings and leave on a high. There is too much at stake.

Yes I think these tweets that are featured on Instagram will be mortified/angry when they're older, in fact I know they will. Every teenager hates their parents at some point.. it's part of separating out and finding your own identity.

*tweens not 'tweets' sorry

Anyway, I'm going to bed. There's a thread on mumsnet from 9 years ago about 'living with teenagers' and the views from then about exposing your children for column inches.

Yep pavlova

Exactly what I thought too!

I saw one instamum/you tuber got burgled....can't help thinking she wouldn't have done if she wasn't known.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/10/family-julie-myerson

Julie Myerson massively overshared her son's drug problem.

There was also the Treasure column in the Guardian in the mid 90s about a teenager. I'm not sure if there was any fallout there.

Saving It was Michelle Hanson's daughter, who wrote this piece 'forgiving' her mother.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-492340/My-columnist-mother-just-mum-teenage-years.html

I forgot about Julie Myerson. I actually read the book.she wrote

I get the feeling Grace O'Leary is just a money collector. If not, then I hope MOD and FOD aren't paying for PR advice. If they think MN is harsh, wait until the TRAs get involved

So on the ethics around use of children, I find it really grates that posters come on and say it's parents choice as though that's a satisfactory argument. I have some teens, and like others have said, it can be surprising and interesting to see them grow up to have very different, strong views to either of their parents. When my older children were young they featured on my Facebook account. I had very few 'friends' and it was mainly very close friends and family who all enjoyed watching the children growing up. But Facebook expanded. And as they are at school you end up with other parents as friends etc and people you meet, so suddenly your sharing your cute snaps with Jane on the PTA. It's very odd and I moved over to Instagram as I saw it as a photo book. I've now deleted my Facebook account, but 2 of my children took great issue with old, shared 'proud' photos. They were embarrassing. Further to this one of my children had very prominent teeth pre-braces and somehow despite me removing the account, when she started college, she was mortified by a girl she'd known at school showing people photos found somehow from me online which people found hilarious. She was so upset. They were not weird or exposing, just the usual run of the mill school pics or playing, but she was really upset.
Now obviously this could happen to anyone, and we are in an age where things change so fast and we don't really know what the impact will be. But it's made me very aware, particularly with them making choices for their futures and wanting to present themselves, in their own right online.
That's why the contrived, staged photos have gone for me. The car ads, the dressing up, no longer does it feel like a snapped pic, it feels like a very carefully staged, set up post. And there's just nothing interesting about a gurning man making his weird faces with his kids to be funny.

It's also likely that the MOFOD accounts get brought up and discussed most frequently, not due to weird obsession, but like reality stars, your watching them blunder through this minefield of sudden large exposure, and they are making mistakes and getting it wrong. Mod's account has been like a teenager's of late, no professionalism just drama, she says she turns down 9/10 offers, so gets blinded by the holidays and biggest payers but admits that she has to question how much of the kids need to feature, his account is 99.99% kids and it's a big earner for him, they don't seem to agree on it all and he frequently contradicts her publicly. They have a pretty big following between them and their clearly not getting any proper account support or management so it is like car crash tv. And those children are experiments.
Like others have said they should quit while they are ahead.
I used to follow Peaches and those little boys. So much of their little lives were shared and I enjoyed it, not really questioning what I was seeing, just cute little boys. I often wonder if they'd have still lived that online life, it seemed pre-ad, but maybe it was all actually collaborations and money. It's nice now that they have disappeared and have their privacy.

FOD's post and follow up, for clarity's sake.

Peony - so? Honestly, it's his feed. Is it the internet police on this thread, what you can and can't post?
So what?

Fod's account has gone quite weird since mod went on a break. The car journey video was so staged it was #megaawks and he was replying to practically every comment when he hardly ever engages usually.

Cady, this might help explain the issue, www.glaad.org/reference/transgender

According to that website, the term 'pre-op' is classed as a problematic term to avoid using. The official media guidelines suggest to not use it. Feel free to contact them direct and let them know you think they are wrong.

FWIW, I don't think FOD meant to cause an uproar, but as others on his post have commented, with the volume of followers he has, he should be a lot more media savvy.

He didn’t know it was an insult.
On being told it was he removed it and apologised. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I’m also fed up with all the m/fod bashing. I know they’re in the news and a car crash waiting to happen, but it’s too much now.

Fod's account has gone quite weird since mod went on a break. The car journey video was so staged it was #megaawks and he was replying to practically every comment when he hardly ever engages usually.

The other thread was moaning he didn't engage in the comments. Now he is, that's seen as "weird".
They can't do right on here it seems!

Sorry for causing any offence CadyHeron. I just thought anybody joining the thread might like to know what was said, before it was edited last night. Is there any reason I can't comment on his feed? It is public

I think he should be more aware, rather than just media savvy. Wasn't the #dearmumset 'campaign' his wife was supporting in part about alleged transphobia on MN?

Cady yes it is weird, as in our of character. He has never engaged and suddenly he's taking the time to reply to every comment? I wasn't complimenting him, more suggesting he is being tactical.

Sorry.peony, you haven't offended me just the utter level of obsession with those two accounts on here is baffling!
(Seems Im not the only one to think so now,others think so too.) Even when the thread has a generic title,it always, always comes back to the same two influencers to pick apart.
Even over the most inane stuff and their own feed that is up to them, not here, what they post.