To think its Theresa and the Tories forever now.....(weeps!)

[SuitedandBooted]

Given that Labour can't even decide what a woman is, or follow their own bloody policies. Perhaps Maria Miller MP should change to their side..., why should anyone give a thought to 52% of the population after all?

For those who missed it, David Lewis did this to make a point;

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/meet-the-man-standing-to-be-a-labour-party-womens-officer/

Personally I'm of the opinion that a woman is an adult person of the female sex, but then I'm not a "woke" Brocialist tosser.

Things have now moved on to this, as Labour was VERY cross with him, as he clearly wasn't being Trans enough . After all, they already have a male-born woman's officer (no surgical changes/hormones etc) who has come out as a lesbian - that's sincerity for you!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3256772-Guess-how-I-got-suspended-from-the-Labour-Party

Dear Jezza, I wouldn't trust you and your pals to run the school fete.

[Ohmydayslove]

Certain

Totally it’s been fact for many years. A paedophiles main goal is to abuse children abs some will indeed gravitate to professions and activities that facilitate that. That is a recognised fact.

Anyone denying that is either ignorant or quite frankly frightening.

[Ohmydayslove]

So where’s the science bit?

Men gone quiet when challenged? Would you prefer intimidating women in RL as you do in the Labour Party? Ain’t happening here on mumsnet lads.

And trust me you won’t ruin labour either. Eventually they will see sense

[busyboysmum]

I was on Twitter the other night where a TRA who also handily had a degree in biology was telling me that the science proved we all start off female until an error occurs and some babies are born male...... but clearly retaining their original female brain. They chucked in some long words but that was the science.

[Ohmydayslove]

Female brain

an error occurs

Jesus I am not sure who is more insulted here!

My 4 lads were no error and I don’t know if my dds and I have female brains think we are just women with brains.

Wtaf did he get his science degree? ACME university? What a tool.

[Ohmydayslove]

Pssssst!

I think they have gone!

[Caribou58]

I was on Twitter the other night where a TRA who also handily had a degree in biology wink was telling me that the science proved we all start off female until an error occurs and some babies are born male...... but clearly retaining their original female brain. They chucked in some long words but that was the science.

I'm aware of the biology that embryos are, indeed, all female first - but this TRA's (incorrect) argument would surely suggest that all men have a "female brain"...

[busyboysmum]

This is the science bit:

Mammals don’t start as females, they start as a blank slate with XX/XY genetic code, and for the first5-6 weeks of gestation only the X gene expresses. Then when the Y gene starts expressing (in genetic XY-males), it releasesandrogensliketestosterone, represses some X gene expression (andestrogendevelopment), and expresses specificY genes. This process is calledsexual differentiationand it leads to what we call male and female.[1][2][3][4][5]

Thus, although we can simplify this concept to, “all mammalsessentiallystart as females” when speaking casually and be “sort of correct,” the idea that “all mammals start is females” or specifically “all humans start as females” is not technically correct.

It is more accurate to say, “untilthe sex-determination process begins,a developing human (technically an embryo) has no anatomic or hormonal sex(just XX or XY genetic code); AKA it is, genetic code aside, a “blank slate.” Then, from there, only the X gene expressesfor the first 5-6 weeks of gestation in both XX and XY. During this time, undifferentiated bi-potential structures likethe gonadal ridgeare developed. Those structures will go on to become either “male” or “female” internal and external sex organs starting at about the 5-6 week mark when, in genetic XY-males, the Y gene expresses, androgens are released, and some X gene expression (and thus the expression of specific gonadal steroid hormones like estrogen) is repressed.”

[Caribou58]

Thanks for that, busyboysmum.

[Caribou58]

I found this amongst a range of increasingly angry and violent comments directed at the women who stood with placards on international women's day and were harangued by a TIM - who then accused them of 'harassment'

I'm so tired of TERFS trying to tell me what gender is when I, as someone with 6 different genders and many of which span beyond the cis homosapien gender binary confines, clearly I know a lot more about gender than some mono gendered cis woman who is 100% okay with being treated like a woman.

[Singlenotsingle]

The world's gone mad! Or at least it will do if Labour ever get back in power again! Clueless, confused and just a car-crash generally!

[TransplantsArePlants]

Caribou

He identifies as an animal?

[Singlenotsingle]

And your point is??? Busyboysmum?

[Caribou58]

He identifies as an animal?

Feck knows.

[CertainHalfDesertedStreets]

I think it's really telling that there's a superfluous 'I' in that sentence Caribou. Me Me Me

[Caribou58]

Meanwhile, Labour's LGBT group affirms right of self id TIMs to stand on all-women shortlists. Look at this article in the Telegraph, especially the photo and see if you can spot what's missing:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/23/self-identifying-trans-women-eligible-all-women-shortlists-labour/

[busyboysmum]

@Singlenotsingle

And your point is??? Busyboysmum?

If you read my earlier post about some of the TRAs I've come across on Twitter you will see they're trying to promote the idea that all embryos start off female. Was just clarifying that's not the case. In case of confusion. They all seem to claim some special scientific knowledge way above the common herd.

[BeyondPink]

It's that 'advanced science' busy... y'know, the one that's obviously further on than what any of us mumsy pinny wearers understand...

[Bowlofbabelfish]

your problem isn't with me, it's with science and that's much trickier to argue against

Still waiting for the TRA science explanation. Come on, let’s hear it hoist

[ReliefOfChaos]

I think this thread was supposed to be about AWS? It looks like a troll hunt now.

[Truscum]

I believe this thread was about why some people feel they can no longer vote Labour, self ID being mentioned as one of the main reasons.

It’s pretty clear on this thread who was putting their points forward in good faith and who was trolling.

[ReliefOfChaos]

"It’s pretty clear on this thread who was putting their points forward in good faith and who was trolling."

And which ones have you engaged with Tru?

[Truscum]

My first post on this thread was on topic.

Yes, I engaged with the sea lions when they started derailing. Happy to do so.

Lurkers have already said in the past that watching exchanges like this showed them how this toxic dynamic was playing out, where concerns are played down and ignored.

Carry on I say.

[Childrenofthesun]

Just read through the whole thread and I'll go back to the original post. I am opposed to self-id and think Corbyn is hopeless, but on a list of awful policy choices I think the Labour Party policy on this is outranked by the Tory anti-poor and anti-disabled policies. I wouldn't vote for either of them. I also think that while the trans debate is huge on MN, in real-life I don't think it's a central enough issue to affect the way most people vote.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

I wonder if the loss of female voters is causing any concern at labour HQ? It can’t be...

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Looking at that picture and I was struck by the thought that it really comes to something when Eddie Bloody Izzard is the most feminine looking man woman transwoman person whatever in it!

Why didn't anybody present think! ?