Instamums in the Telegraph

[caperberries]

Is there a new thread about this?

Totally agree with cracker. Thanks for coming back @ForTheGram You should be allowed to speak about your experience without threats of violence.

The whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion.

I just can’t seem to see anything bad about the ads on insta as they are much more relaxed for kids than television advertising and also (from personal experience) stage acting and the music industry for children, they work them so hard. In this day in age unless your not on ANY form of social media platform I think people can find out anything they want to about you, your children etc. The world is changing so fast and social media is a huge huge part of it, along with reality tv shows etc it’s just the way the world is going, it does completely put your children, yourself& your personal private details& life out there for ANYONE to see. It’s a weird one, it’s good to hear people’s thoughts on it x

Glad you're posting @ForTheGram and sorry you had to hear that stuff said about you

Gram, everything you’ve said has been fair and should be taken on by WS as constructive feedback. It just reinforces the blaringly obvious point that being an influencer does not make you a ‘brand’ just because you monetise. If you want to be treated like a business then act like one, if you want to be treated like a normal person then act like one. I don’t think you can have your cake and eat it.

Lovegenerateslove, I think the point is that the children often don’t know what they’re doing is a ‘#ad’ and some are too young to have a say. If your child is in performing arts etc, they’re (hopefully) there because they want to be, these insta children are going about their lives while advertising. Where’s the line?

"At around the same time, but apparently unrelated, another Instagrammer (CB) made a story in which she cried because of a cruel DM. We discussed that here, and the response of a friend (SV) who made a story about cutting people in defence. That Instagrammer has since retracted her statement and been very open and reflective. "

As you want to be clear @Bullnoway can we be clear pls that "that Instagrammer" means SusieV, and not CB (Candice Braithwaite). CB did a couple of aggressive and sad face stories and one or two pity party posts but has not retracted any statement or been open and reflective. Oh my bad, she's been open and reflective about how hard Candice Braithwaite works and how one person out of 700 criticised the very hard-working Candice Braithwaite and how that one criticism is still appalling and she won't take it or put up with any shit, and if you dare to question her you'll get Papa B mansplaining it for you.

Forthegram, you did not deserve the vitriol you received.

The whole scenario just reinforces the idea that Influencers cannot accept any form of criticism. It was hardly even criticism either, just an account of your experience.

'xactly Ginger. An account of her experience. Which Wee Slice could have simply shrugged at an dismissed and considered @Forthegram wrong, then moved on. But instead she chose to make it fodder for her stories. It was, as MNHQ might say in one of their thread deletion messages, goady.

The abuse aimed at Mumsnet and individual posters makes a total mockery of the whole wiminsupportingwimin instamum thing, the entire collective brand is meant to be based on mothers and feminism(lite), it’s bullshit.

If they can’t take comments about an event without setting their followers on ppl and screaming into their phones about it it just shows what little spect they have for their followers. Let them screech into the void about it.

Forthegram - you did nothing wrong in your feedback about that event.

The torrent of abuse that you received and that names you were called were completely and utterly out of order. It would be nice if TMWC could apologise to you, but I guess that won't happen.

Glad you are OK x

Gram, all your post did was underline what people have been writing on here all along ‘ Never criticise the influencer’
Anyone with an ounce of business accumen would have read your comment and addressed it to avoid a repeat. That is the point. They are not behaving professionally. Those that do MP DMBL40
Etc will continue to succeed.
These threads have proved beyond doubt that there is big divide between the more professional and the more emotional (not so switched on to how a business works ) type influencer
Kudos to SV for joining in. SV has gone up in my opinion while WS et al ... rock bottom where they’ll stay.

Trying to respond to everyone, sorry if I miss anyone. I do share lots of pics of my children on my SM, however I have strict security settings so only family and some friends can see them. I an not particularly bothered who sees the photos, my security is high as I don't want randoms knowing when I'm on holiday etc.

If I had a public insta account which I wanted to try and earn an income from I would have no issue with including my children. My youngest would love to be in photo's and stories, my oldest might not want to which would be her choice, so no different to what some instamums have said their stance is.

Re the potty pic, I have a very similar photo of my eldest on my Facebook account, she loves looking through the old photo's, she's aware other people can see them and isn't bothered at all. Not sure how she'd feel if I had 800000 followers though!

*@Lovegenerateslove
*
I just can’t seem to see anything bad about the ads on insta as they are much more relaxed for kids than television advertising and also (from personal experience) stage acting and the music industry for children, they work them so hard. In this day in age unless your not on ANY form of social media platform I think people can find out anything they want to about you, your children etc. The world is changing so fast and social media is a huge huge part of it, along with reality tv shows etc it’s just the way the world is going, it does completely put your children, yourself& your personal private details& life out there for ANYONE to see. It’s a weird one, it’s good to hear people’s thoughts on it x

I completely agree with the above.

Thanks for the corrections everyone - exactly the right thing - to have a single narrative setting it all out. Not least because if you only looked at insta (or indeed don't have time to read the four Mumsnet threads) then you would get a very partial picture indeed.

For example, if you read TMWC's thread, you would think that she had been mentioned here before her thread, which she was not. You would also think that she had been criticised for getting free sandals, which she was not. (I assume most of the vitriol on her thread was from people who are very protective of her, because she has clearly had a really tough time, and people thought she was being attacked, of which I can see no evidence at all - only of people being (reasonably) critical of the aggressive tone of her stories).

Anyway - as you were.

ps - one could write a similar paragraph about much of this - WS, NSSN and so forth. For the record. It's just an example.

My youngest would love to be in photo's and stories, my oldest might not want to which would be her choice, so no different to what some instamums have said their stance is..

Your youngest wouldn't understand the implications of being featured in stories and photos. It's only when these kids get older and realise that they don't actually want to be plastered across their parents social media day in day out that the parents sit up and take notice. While the kids can't consent, the parents are happy to use them.

Re the potty pic, I have a very similar photo of my eldest on my Facebook account, she loves looking through the old photo's, she's aware other people can see them and isn't bothered at all.

Well that is nice for your child. Otillie and Delilah might feel differently.

Not sure how she'd feel if I had 800000 followers though!

Well yes, quite.

Sofia, did you not read that Guardian article? Did the opinions of experts mean absolutely nothing to you?

it’s just the way the world is going, it does completely put your children, yourself& your personal private details& life out there for ANYONE to see

I'd disagree with this lovegenerateslove. Social Media is very new. Initially, in the first rush of SM novelty and excitement, the world might have been heading in the direction you describe, but I think that trend has definitely gone into sharp reverse now. My older teens are massively guarded in their online presence. My youngest (17) doesn't have FB, twitter or IG and does all her sharing with friends privately on snapchat.

I think it's likely that the fad for wide public sharing of personal stuff is going to be viewed with horrified disbelief by future generations.

Conversations like the one being held here are really important in analysing the impact of an aspect of family life that simply didn't exist a generation ago. Not just the impact now, but long term, on children who will become adults in a time when attitudes to privacy may have changed considerably. Sharing personal details is choice, not inevitable necessity. People should be aware of its potential implications.

I have't been keeping up with the thread, but I remember someone compared Instagram to QVC and then I read this in Souring Journal (a trade journal this morning) The comments are from PSFK’s president of strategy Scott Lachut they're a trend analysis company.

“It’s amazing when these words become part of the vernacular,” Lachut said. “I now find myself saying ‘Instagrammability’ when having conversations with clients.” A customer’s “social capital” can be a valuable investment for brands, he added, because “they’re ultimately the advocates expanding our marketing.”

Social media’s endless streams of aspirational imagery—much of which comes from lifestyle influencers—has primed consumers to shop in the moment and get their instant gratification fix without having to click away. That’s why Pritzker said he sometimes jokes that “Instagram is the new QVC or HSN” and is becoming a “shopping channel.”

Pritzker also addressed how the concept of luxury is changing and being reinterpreted by the millennial and Gen Z consumers. “I think that the idea of luxury probably used to have a one-to-one relationship with status, which is why it’s kind of a dirty word in a certain sense for maybe a younger generation,” he explained. “I think the idea of luxury has really transformed to a sense of discovery, like music. People really want to discover brands they want to have a direct relationship with them.”

@Bullnoway

Your summary doesn't include the dozens of previous threads, especially those over the last few months on which some terrible comments have been made. Specifically re Mod & FoD, there was accusations of them not safeguarding their children with mention of Social Services, discussion re their marriage, how they afforded their new house (with the address pretty much given) and all sorts of other irrelevant rubbish.

Those endless comments are what prompted me to post in the first place, I found it shocking that women who have never met these people would be so invested in tearing them apart. I can see why certain instagrammers have had enough and are retaliating.

Absinthe, same here. Two boys in their 20’s both loath sm. If I put pictures of them up they’d be really cross and demand I remove it.

Completely agree Absinthe

Thanks Bullway for writing post

Sorry I mean bullnoway

@jamoncrumpets

Yes I've read that article, and others. My take on it is to use common sense.

My kids are aware they are on my SM, they actually ask me to take pics sometimes and to tag family in to show them. There is no evidence of long term damage caused to children by having been featured on SM.

My children have been educated re online safety, they do not have any SM accounts of their own and are both very aware that anything posted online can very easily be screenshot or taken out of context.

I personally don't care if some random person screenshots a pic of my child from the schools Twitter account or from my SM somehow. As stated in The Guardian article a stranger could take a photo of your child in a public place. It's no different. My kids are happy and safe, a stranger having their photo doesn't change this.

Sali Hughes’ post on Instagram this morning is an excellent example on how to pre-empt any inappropriate comments. And how to moderate a feed. She posted her support for the women of Ireland, obviously a contentious issue and says Instagram is not ideal for reasoned, nuanced debate. So basically fine if you disagree with her but this is not the right forum to debate the issue. She linked to her Pool articles for further clarification. I thought it was Very well put, professional and thoughtful.

Jamoncrumpets your question to Sofialemon is the crux of the child issue, isn't it. Who does respect the opinions of experts? I haven't read any commentary from an expert saying that putting your child in SM to sell products is a good idea. How could it ever be a good idea!

I think that is why the push back is so hard from those who do it. They can't justify it.

As an aside, did you see MP's jam on crumpet story. I don't think it was aimed at you