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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Women who have children before marriage

968 replies

FissionChips · 22/05/2018 01:20

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

OP posts:
Lethaldrizzle · 22/05/2018 10:57

The bible obvs! An unmarried mother is a fallen woman!

TheDrinksAreOnMe · 22/05/2018 10:58

I personally always love this one from unmarried women

“I gave the kids the dads surname because it’s traditional”

Traditional for who? LOL!

VladmirsPoutine · 22/05/2018 11:00

No-one says there has to be an order Whitesea But if I'm going to be taking time out of my career to raise children and have no personal wealth then it would certainly make sense to ensure that I'm protected should the proverbial hit the fan.

This sort of 'fuck society' that sees people wanting to go against the grain and do things their own way unfortunately doesn't help when women find themselves at a certain having to start again with not a penny to their name, a belligerent ex-husband and a CV that was last updated in 1997.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:01

Whitesea Exactly, I think people should just do what makes them happy, some people feel they have to follow this order because it’s ‘tradition.’

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:03

‘This sort of 'fuck society' that sees people wanting to go against the grain and do things their own way unfortunately doesn't help when women find themselves at a certain having to start again with not a penny to their name, a belligerent ex-husband and a CV that was last updated in 1997.’

This is why the law needs to change. It’s extremelt archaic that people have to get married to have the rights they should be entitled too cohabiting for years in a relationship.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:03

to*

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:04

Me and dh literally only got married because we had a child and needed the security. This shouldn’t have to be the case.

PurpleTraitor · 22/05/2018 11:08

I am an unmarried mother (shock) I would gain very very few advantages for me and my children if I married their father/my partner of 15 years. To begin a marriage we’d have to invest in some start up costs - however cheap people seem to think it is to be married. I’d have to take some significant financial risks. And should we wish to part, which statistically is more likely than not, we’d have to pay further fees and I’d have to take further financial risks. Given apparently I’m the one more likely to stay around to look after the children, as per this thread, how would my taking on those costs and risks benefit them?

Thewhale2903 · 22/05/2018 11:12

FluffyMcCloud
I have honestly never thought of it this way. I wish I had at the time when naming my child. My partner and i are still together but that's an excellent point

bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 11:12

Is it only the inheritance tax advantage that can't be reached another way? Oh and I suppose the fact that they could change their will and you wouldn't know.

IHT is the main tax advantage that can't be accessed by cohabiting couples, there are some others

Married couples allowance (although this doesn’t apply if either spouse is a higher-rate taxpayer)

Transfer of assets free of capital gains tax

Bereavement allowance

ISAs after death:
While ISAs can’t be transferred between spouses during their lifetime, they can be transferred on death to the surviving spouse while retaining their tax-free status.

Pensions and bereavement allowances:
Unlike married couples, unmarried couples who live together are not entitled to receive the state pension or bereavement allowance for deceased partners.

If you have a defined contribution pension, you can name your partner as a beneficiary and they will inherit your pension when you die, whether you’re married or not.

However, if you or your partner has a defined benefit pension - most common in the public sector or large corporations - there are specific benefits that can usually only be received by a widow or dependent child. If you’re married, the surviving spouse can receive a ‘survivor’s pension’, sometimes for the rest of their life. An unmarried partner is unlikely to be entitled to this, although it depends on the pension scheme rules.

Joint bank accounts:
If you are unmarried and you have a joint bank account, on the death of one partner, the other partner becomes entitled to the balance and can continue to have unlimited access to the account. However, a proportion of the balance will be taken into account when calculating the value of the estate of the person who has died.

If a married couple has a joint bank account, the money is owned jointly regardless of who put it into the account. On the death of one partner, the whole account immediately becomes the property of the other

There are numerous other protections that can be accessed via a cohabitation agreement, with regard to financial arrangements in the event of the relationship breaking down, but this will cost several hundred pounds to be drawn up by a solicitor. This sets out exactly what assets each partner is bringing to the relationship and how they should be divided in the event of the relationship breaking down. This includes your property, its contents, personal belongings and savings. It can also set out how much someone has contributed to the mortgage deposit and repayments.

And yes you are right about wills being changed: it's legally harder for an unmarried partner to challenge a will if their partner goes behind their back to disinherit them, than for a married partner

Of course, these are rights and responsibilities that couples may decide that aren't right for them - and thus they should absolutely free to cohabit without having the legal status of marriage enforced on them by virtue of living together. If you want to enter into a contract, you enter into that contract willingly and mindfully. But equally the lack of knowledge around 'common law' marriages leaves many unmarried partners vulnerable

nolongersurprised · 22/05/2018 11:13

Does it really confuse you so much that some people do not follow like sheep and refuse to get married...

Why is it always sheep in these analogies? Lots of sheep are stubborn and wilful and wander off etc.

bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 11:17

This is why the law needs to change. It’s extremelt archaic that people have to get married to have the rights they should be entitled too cohabiting for years in a relationship.

What about if cohabiting couples DON'T want the rights and responsibilities of marriage. For example, if a partner wants to protect their existing assets for their children from their previous marriage, so their new partner can't have a claim on these

Why should they have the legal obligations of marriage imposed on them by virtue of living together, when they have deliberately chosen not to enter into a legal contract?

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:22

*‘What about if cohabiting couples DON'T want the rights and responsibilities of marriage. For example, if a partner wants to protect their existing assets for their children from their previous marriage, so their new partner can't have a claim on these

Why should they have the legal obligations of marriage imposed on them by virtue of living together, when they have deliberately chosen not to enter into a legal contract?’*

Because they should have the choice Banana. Isn’t that the point? Why should you ‘have’ to get married to have the same rights? There should be some form of legislation you can chose to sign if you wish for the same rights as married couples.

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam · 22/05/2018 11:23

Kate Middleton did

They've been married seven years 😂 Let's give it a little longer before proclaiming she found her 'happy ever after'. Pretty sure she will live for several more decades to come!

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:24

@nolongersurprised I love your analogy about sheep, lots do stray from the herd Grin

bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 11:33

Because they should have the choice Banana. Isn’t that the point? Why should you ‘have’ to get married to have the same rights? There should be some form of legislation you can chose to sign if you wish for the same rights as married couples.

Why should you 'have' to take out insurance to get the protections of an insurance policy?

There's a legal framework to give you the rights and responsibilities of a legal partnership

You want a legal contract that you can opt into, that's the same as marriage in terms of legal rights, but isn't called marriage?

If it's an opt in contract you want, that you can sign to get the same rights as married couples, how would that opt-in contract differ to the opt-in contract we currently have (signing a marriage register)?

Is it the name 'marriage' that's the issue? If civil marriage was simply renamed 'legal union' would that suffice?

chavtasticfirebanger · 22/05/2018 11:34

Tbh i dont agree with stepfamilies and relationships which complicate where the childrens' inheritence goes so marriage wouldnt be an issue anyway. To complicated and not fair on the existing children.

NameChanger22 · 22/05/2018 11:38

My partner asked me to marry, I said no because it would have meant I would have lost my house to him. I don't like the idea of marriage either, it's sexist and old-fashioned. I've always been very, very glad that we didn't get married.

I've also been very glad that we had a child together, because I otherwise I would have missed that boat and I love being a single parent.

Every situation is different. Just get on with your own life and stop worrying about what other people are doing.

Helpmeplan · 22/05/2018 11:41

Pass you mean like the legal contract of marriage .. smh

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 11:44

Helpmeplan Do you think unmarried families shouldn’t have the same rights?

VladmirsPoutine · 22/05/2018 11:44

They've been married seven years 😂 Let's give it a little longer before proclaiming she found her 'happy ever after'. Pretty sure she will live for several more decades to come!

The point is not whether or not she will remain married until her dying day. It is that she unlike thousands of women that might get divorced won't be needing to call up CMS whilst googling what she might be entitled to in way of child or working tax credits Confused.

It also stands to reason that marriage is not the panacea. The days of cushy alimonies are long gone, and everyone knows that whatever CMS declares to be the minimum is in no way reflective of the actual cost of raising a child. Marriage or not the most important thing is financial independence and security.

saiya06 · 22/05/2018 11:51

Mountainsoutofmolehills

Don't be naive. Most contraceptive "failures" aren't really failures. That's why the rise of long term birth control methods has helped dramatically reduce teen pregnancy. Many women are simply "forgetting" to take the pill to passively move the relationship to the next level.

saiya06 · 22/05/2018 11:55

Oh, and you can't ACTUALLY contract out of de facto relationships in NZ and Australia, not really. In theory you can but in reality you can't.

It's like a pre nup. Having a pre nup doesn't mean you weren't married. Like with a pre nup, you have to go to court to enforce it which means paying a lawyer and the court has almost complete discretion to overturn it anyway.

The difference is that no de facto relationship -> move out and move on
de facto relationship -> move out, go to court, pay lawyers huge amount, uncertain outcomes

De facto relationships can not be opted out of.

Mymycherrypie · 22/05/2018 11:58

So much judgement on unmarried mothers here but less so for those who only married for financial gain. Is marriage about love, money or “doing things the right way”?

People are free to do whatever they like without care for what nosey as fuck people think. They aren’t going to get married just because you think they are odd OP.

Mymycherrypie · 22/05/2018 11:59

And obviously women only get pregnant “by accident” to snare a man in to marriage, then spend their lives desperately hoping for a proposal that never comes.

You lot should write for Hollyoaks.