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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Women who have children before marriage

968 replies

FissionChips · 22/05/2018 01:20

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

OP posts:
bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 12:00

Don't be naive. Most contraceptive "failures" aren't really failures. That's why the rise of long term birth control methods has helped dramatically reduce teen pregnancy. Many women are simply "forgetting" to take the pill to passively move the relationship to the next level.

The effectiveness of the implant is over 99% with 'perfect use', and also over 99% with 'typical' use, because there is very little margin for user error

IUD and IUS are more than 99% effective with both perfect and typical use

Whilst the contraceptive pill is over 99% effective with 'perfect use', typical use is approx 91% effective

The injection is over 99% effective with perfect use. Typical use is around 94% because the jab lasts 3 months and people don't always go and get it redone on time

Condoms are 98% effective with perfect use, but typical use is only 82%

Of course there will be stories of implant and coil failures, nothing is 100%. Although the chances of a contraceptive failure with the use of both a LARC and a barrier method are close to zero

If people were genuinely immune to the hormones of the pill ('it didn't work for me') then the effectiveness of the implant would be lower. But it isn't. The difference in effectiveness between the two forms of birth control is primarily because of user error.

(Disclaimer - worked on the government teen pregnancy and sexual health strategy with the department of health for 2.5 years)

mydogisthebest · 22/05/2018 12:01

If couples want the benefits and security that comes with marriage then get married. If you don't want to get married fine but don't expect the same benefits as those that do

YogaDrone · 22/05/2018 12:04

Bananafish "It's also impossible for a cohabitation agreement to secure married person's tax allowance, bereavement allowance and exemption from IHT"

^ This. DP and I have been happily unmarried for 15 years and have a 10 year old son. Our living together agreement and wills were drawn up by our solicitor. Our son has both our family names. The house is 75% mine and my pension is larger so financially I'm "better off" than DP. The only thing we can't protect each other from is IHT and bereavement allowance.

So we mutually agreed that we have no other choice but to get married. We are getting married on a Wednesday lunchtime. We will both be wearing jeans and t-shirts and witnesses are being provided by the pub next door for a donation behind the bar! None of our family or friends will be told about our change in legal status. I feel quite upset that I'm having to resort to this patriarchal BS but I am a pragmatic person and I can see no other option as things currently stand.

Mymycherrypie · 22/05/2018 12:06

If you don't want to get married fine but don't expect the same benefits as those that do

Who says they do? Are there marches and campaigns for this? Are unmarried mothers continually bleating on about the injustice... or are OP and others just massively generalising and bitching about the motives and life aspirations of a group of women they seem not to even understand.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 12:07

‘So much judgement on unmarried mothers here but less so for those who only married for financial gain. Is marriage about love, money or “doing things the right way?’

Do you not think that those that marry for security are in love? Of course they are. It’s sensible to make sure your dc will be okay financially should the worst happen.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 12:08

not in love *

NameChanger22 · 22/05/2018 12:08

If couples want the benefits and security that comes with marriage then get married. If you don't want to get married fine but don't expect the same benefits as those that do

Sometimes marriage isn't a benefit or a security, sometimes it's a very expensive trap for women. I would have lost my house if I'd got married. Some people have a very blinkered view of life.

RiddleyW · 22/05/2018 12:10

Well it would have been a benefit and security for your spouse then.

neonyellowshoes · 22/05/2018 12:12

Daft question, as an unmarried, part time working mother, what rights would I get if we married? I really don't get it

Lethaldrizzle · 22/05/2018 12:12

But contraceptive failures still do happen and then your choice is to abort. And that is not an easy choice to make.

TheFatkinsDiet · 22/05/2018 12:12

‘So much judgement on unmarried mothers here but less so for those who only married for financial gain. Is marriage about love, money or “doing things the right way?”

Eh? Have people been saying that? I don’t think I’ve seen that view on here (or anywhere tbh since the sixties Grin).

Someone always comes up with this crap. As if, to believe in marriage you must either be a hopeless romantic or are pretending to be in order to get your claws in to some man’s money.

NameChanger22 · 22/05/2018 12:13

Not spouse, we didn't marry. The security he would have gained from half my house would have been very short-lived, since he was intent on self-destruction anyway. Marriage would have been a very bad idea. Having a child was a very good idea.

Mymycherrypie · 22/05/2018 12:14

PasstheStarmix I don’t know. It’s just the holier than though overtones I get on this thread. Everyone seems quick to ascertain that anyone with kids who isn’t married most definitely got pregnant to trap the man. Oh yes. Definitely nods in judgemental agreement at such wickedness And he never even married her in the end! Lo! What folly!

But when people say “oh we got married so I’d be financially secure” then it’s just a love match with very wise additional financial benefits and aren’t we so fucking clever.

Not everyone wants what others want.

Universitydropout · 22/05/2018 12:14

I ended things with my ex almost 2 years ago. We've not got divorced due to cost but have no joint assets and live apart.
He is now having a planned baby with his new gf. I feel a bit sorry for her but she's obviously decided its ok

TheFatkinsDiet · 22/05/2018 12:14

@neon

Just google “benefits of marriage uk” and make your own mind up. You might think there’s no good reason to do it and that you’re better off not being married, but it’s worth doing the research imo.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 12:16

As namechanger said marriage doesn’t benefit everybody. It depends on your situation. If marriage would benefit you situation and you don’t believe in marriage it’s a shame you have to get married to do so.

RiddleyW · 22/05/2018 12:16

Not spouse, we didn't marry. The security he would have gained from half my house would have been very short-lived, since he was intent on self-destruction anyway. Marriage would have been a very bad idea. Having a child was a very good idea.

I meant if you had married.

My point is not that you should have got married but just that this is generally how it works - the party in the weaker financial position gains from being married and the stronger loses.

I do find it really annoying the way it is assumed on MN that the woman is always the one bringing less money to the marriage though.

PasstheStarmix · 22/05/2018 12:18

Mymycherrypie I agree, people do what suits their own situation and why does anybody else give a fuck. Those that judge i’m sure aren’t perfect themselves.

bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 12:19

Sometimes marriage isn't a benefit or a security, sometimes it's a very expensive trap for women. I would have lost my house if I'd got married. Some people have a very blinkered view of life.

Absolutely. Which is why it should be entered into mindfully and willingly. It's beneficial for some, not for others

Which is why imposing the obligations of marriage on cohabiting couples (whether or not they wish to enter into a legal arrangement or not), is so objectionable to many people on this thread

neonyellowshoes · 22/05/2018 12:20

A tax allowance that only benefits low income households?

Nah, not worth the fuss.

I think marriage is outdated. An expensive, pointless fuss that turns people into loons and causes family fueds over seating plans.

Bollox to that.

TheFatkinsDiet · 22/05/2018 12:21

If marriage would benefit you situation and you don’t believe in marriage it’s a shame you have to get married to do so.

I agree. It would remove the frankly stupid notion that anyone who prioritises marriage just wants a pretty frock and MY BIG DAY. Or are duping some poor sap into thinking it’s twue wove just to get their mits on their cash. There’s prejudice towards the married sometimes too ime. You can have a quiet, no frills affair and keep your own name etc, but some jumped up clever clogs will still accuse you of one of the aforementioned or of being a zombified product of the patriarchy.

bananafish81 · 22/05/2018 12:21

PasstheStarmix so what kind of legal contract do you want that gives the rights and responsibilities of marriage without having to sign a marriage contract? As per my previous post, if marriage was renamed 'legal union' would that suffice?

NameChanger22 · 22/05/2018 12:22

I think we need to stop assuming that women are always financially weaker in a relationship. And stop assuming that marriage is a good idea for everyone.

TheFatkinsDiet · 22/05/2018 12:22

Which is why imposing the obligations of marriage on cohabiting couples (whether or not they wish to enter into a legal arrangement or not), is so objectionable to many people on this thread

Exactly. That would be utterly stupid. If anything, there needs to be an alternative legal contract which both partners agree to. Like marriage but without the stigma.

neonyellowshoes · 22/05/2018 12:23

Or that most woman have no choice but to stay at home.