Women who have children before marriage

[FissionChips]

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

Take that risk then.

I don't see it as a risk.

I still work p/t, OH has paid most of my living costs, my student load, and my half of the mortgage for years.

Our house isn't worth enough for the inheritance tax thing to apply, and the married person's tax is just over £200 so no enticement.

The pension thing irritates me, but more that I didn't get round to firing money into mine. My mistake that I am trying to rectify.

Plus - I chose well. He isn't an asshole. That's the mistake people make rather than the marriage thing IMO. They ignore the signs.

Mountainsoutofmolehills I suppose in this day and age where termination is available and nobody has to go through with a pregnancy they don't want, it still makes sense to talk about choices

Unfortunately this is not true for many users of this site. I appreciate you probably mean mainland UK, however NI is part of the UK and Ireland isn't far away yet this is not an option for women in those countries unless they can afford to travel to the mainland and pay for a termination.

I just couldn't resist throwing that in as it is very topical right now here in Ireland

DH and I were very traditional. I won't get into the reasons for that. We met at school, got engaged and married a few years after leaving school. We bought our house and had it ready to move in after we were married. We had children very soon after. This was the right thing for us and I have no regrets. However, I do often wonder if I would want that for my own children. I will try hard not to influence them, but I really would not mind if they do things in a different order or don't do them at all as I know the way we did it is not for everyone and probably really quite uncommon now. This was about 15 years ago. The main thing I am so happy we did was scrimping and saving to buy our house but that obviously just isn't possible now for school leavers on a crap incomes like we were.

*Do you have children oliversmum, simply for inheritance purposes being married makes a large difference.

Such a shame that someone elses divorce impacts you so much*

We have 2 dc, youngest just about to go to college in September.

Personally if you had seen what my friend has been through no one would get married.
When you add up the cost of the divorce, it is entering its second years and how much she will end up with I think she would be better off not having got married.

The financial aspect of divorce doesn't take account of abuse or domestic violence or someone who says they have a very low income so cant afford to pay her maintenance but is gambling £2000 per month and wasting any money she did have on futile court cases because the judge sits there and says that nothing can be done because he still hasn't filled out the forms.

She is being forced to accept much less than her 50% because he is allowed to stretch it out for longer and longer till she has ended up at a food bank just to eat.

So no I don't believe marriage gives you some magical protection.
From what I have seen it just seems to cost more money than it is supposed to save

notsohippy
I own half the house and have my own income
That's great. But let's hope your husband's share of the house isn't worth too much if by some tragic incident you lose your dp because inheritance tax is a right fucker....

DP, not husband 🤦‍♀️

I'm traditional in many ways and was fed up with shyness holding me back so I brought up the subject of marriage to DB in a 'shall we ...?' way. He agreed and we had a quiet wedding. It worked for us. Did I feel cheated as he didn't go down on one knee? Not at all.

I had no inclination to marry DH until we had DC1. As soon as I had her I wanted to get married as a sort of protection for her and to solidify our little family unit. DH did the whole asking my stepfather for his permission and bended knee thing when she was 10 days old. We got married when she was 4 months old with a blessing for her included in the service and have been married 21 years now.

TBH I'm relieved we did get married. We've been through some extremely low points in our relationship and I doubt we'd have stayed together if we hadn't.

Is it only the inheritance tax advantage that can't be reached another way? Oh and I suppose the fact that they could change their will and you wouldn't know.

i really dislike people having different surnames to mums. At least double barrell it

I am married, I didn’t change my name (a decent chunk in women in my profession don’t) and my children have DH’s name. I don’t think anyone has ever had a discussion with me about it, in any context. Now wondering if anyone has felt strongly about it yet suppressed it

@oliversmumsarmy

There will always be exceptions, but I think the generally accepted wisdom is that marriage offers more security to the partner who earns less when they have children, (usually the woman who has had to stop work or go pt in order to care for them). There are some right bastard husbands out there though alright, and it’s no shock that they become bastard exes. Plenty of seemingly lovely husbands become bastard exes too.

And you’re right - divorce is no picnic! There’s one happening in my family now (not me) and my God it’s messy. And that’s with them being fairly civilised too and both worked full time. I dread to think about the harder cases.

To me though, that’s a deterrent to getting divorced rather that a deterrent to getting married. The statistics are high for divorce, but I’m sure I read on here that they are even higher for cohabiting couples with children separating. And you could still have a bastard ex (if he becomes a bastard ex) refusing to pay maintenance, not showing up to look after children and children to care for .

Also, what if it isn’t divorce, but death? You are better protected if your husband dies if you’re married I think, due to no IHT and if you receive certain other benefits from the state you will still get them if you’re married, but not necessarily if you’re cohabiting.

Not saying there’s anything wrong with cohabiting at all btw, just explaining my views.

So we all know we must protect ourselves, before we have children, and certainly afterwards. Knowing this all we as mothers

Must educate our girls to care more about getting good grades and degrees and therefore good jobs to support themselves over and above the need to look 'pretty' for a man. I am still shocked knowing what we know today that so much time is wasted looking good, when it is better to be smarter.

Secondly educating young women that their choices are absolutely choices for life when it comes to children, the huge consequences that may not be apparent initially needs to be known. Financial planning is absolutely essential, along with family planning and security. Knowing what would happen if something goes wrong etc.

Lastly giving our children the confidence and self esteem to choose their future dps wisely. Many a disaster could be avoided by simply having very high standards, and accepting that often it is much better to have no dp at all for life, than to have one that is harmful (some still need to learn the art of independence)

Yes we are going in the right direction during our generation, but there is much to do to make things even better for our girls.

Educate them, and don't facilitate the ridiculous cinderella fairytales, no one ever goes on to live happily ever after....ever. We go on to be competent, strong and fulfilled lives maybe, but with a fair share of shit hitting the fan on sometimes a regular basis that will require resilience and inner strength.

Now wondering if anyone has felt strongly about it yet suppressed it

But would you really care anyway? I don't.

I hate my surname for various reasons. But it is still my identity. I didn't want to lumber my kids with it.

Wise words @summerinrome!

Can I still watch Disney movies with dd though..?

PrimalLass no, not a jot! I never seriously considered changing my name, it just seemed unnecessary to me. I also don’t feel that the kids need the same surname as me to feel secure or whatever, I know they’re mine and they’ve never really questioned it or been curious. Although Dd1 once asked why women often change their last name and men don’t. I don’t care when I get addressed as Mrs DH’s surname though.

no one ever goes on to live happily ever after....ever.

Kate Middleton did . But I agree with your point. I can't stress enough how important it is for women to always maintain their independence regardless of how much they are in love or whatever.

When my father died he and my step mother weren't married despite being together for 25 years.

She couldn't be his next of kin, she couldn't register his death. Without the marriage certificate, in the eyes of the law, she was nothing.

I can’t speak for those who wish to be married but I am bemused by the poster who can’t understand why her cousin who has four planned children isn’t married. Does it really confuse you so much that some people do not follow like sheep and get married because it is expected of them? If marriage isn’t for religious reasons and you don’t benefit a huge amount by marrying, why do it?

Does marriage cut down the breakup/divorce rates? I doubt it. The idea of being tied to someone else is not for everyone. Mortgages are usually joint purchases and legal clauses are put in place for unmarried couples. I agree though that children should have both parebt’s names regardless of their parents being married. Being traditional is not for everyone. I admire people who think for themselves and I dislike the idea of being proposed to and the fairytale wedding tripe fed especially to young girls in this day and age.

You never know if your partner is an asshole until they show that side of themselves. Not needing to marry because DP is nice isnt secure or safe. You never know someone else 100%

Some women’s biological clocks won’t wait. For example my friend tried to do everything what she perceived as the ‘right way.’ They got married complete with elaborate honeymoon and bought a house first. When they decided to try for dc and are having fertility issues. My friend is in her mid thirties. She often wonders if she’d had the dc first and not been so set on doing everything in order than she may not be having the issues she is.

they are*

Who decided the ‘order’ anyway? Who said there has to be an ‘order’?

White noone. But men are less likely to marry once kids are already here. They get the rush of a newborn then it fades again. For women it grows.

That's true chavtastic, but after 23 years he's been pretty ok.

Youre lucky primal im pleased for you