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AIBU?

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Original poster

Women who have children before marriage

968 replies

FissionChips · 22/05/2018 01:20

..but get upset when their partner does not want to/ has not asked to marry them , yet still insist they are too traditional to even contemplate asking their dp to marry them or just discussing it like adults.

I dont get it. Most of the complaining women give the child their partners surname as well which isn’t even traditional if the parents are not married. They live together for years. They are in no way following tradition.
AIBU to not understand why they lie about being “traditional “?

OP posts:
Mountainsoutofmolehills · 22/05/2018 09:07

Look, what I find shocking that no one ever talks about is wtf are people thinking having unplanned pregnancies? We went to science class, have a first world situation of free healthcare, free contraception and still men in the UK don't really want to use condoms and women are so programmed to satisfy mens sexual enjoyment that they let some guy giz in them without control........... Own your life, be the captain of your ship. Giving the surname of the sperm donor who may or may not stick around is another feeble attempt for the women for the man to claim 'their' child. My sister did it. And it made no difference, my mum does all the child care, and then my sister met her next boyfriend in the pub. Eye roll. You make your bed, and then you lie in it.

RiddleyW · 22/05/2018 09:08

You can walk away from a marriage but you cant walk away from children.

People (nearly all men) walk away from children all the time.

Helpmeplan · 22/05/2018 09:10

banana is on the money.

walking in the UK there is no 'common law'

JustHereForThePooStories · 22/05/2018 09:13

Marriage is the equivalent of paying for life-long, once-off car insurance, at a cost of about £200. It won’t stop you crashing, but it will absolutely give you a lot of protection in the event that you do.

You don’t decide not to insure your car because you feel it’s a good model and won’t crash- you accept that things change, and not everything is within your control.

You don’t refuse to insure your car because an insurance disc is “just a piece of paper”.

You don’t refuse to insure your car because someone you know had a car for 40 years and then it crashed.

I’m always very wary of unmarried men who have children with their partners but don’t want to get married “yet” as they want to do it “right”. I’d run a mile from a man who wouldn’t agree to enter into a contract giving legal protection to the mother of his child(ren).

mydogisthebest · 22/05/2018 09:14

I thought the main reason for couples living together was to get to know each other properly before marriage? Of course some couples just want to live together and never get married.

I didn't live with DH before we got married but if we had chosen to I would have made sure we were agreed that if everything was fine we would get married. I would also have wanted to have some sort of time scale on when the wedding would be. I know DH would agree with me. In fact I suggested living together but he was adamant that he didn't want that.

So if a couple are living together knowing they are going to get married why have children first? Of course it may be an accident but they can still get married before the baby arrives.

All that ridiculous "we want to get married but can't afford it", "we can't afford a house and a wedding" or "we can't afford children and a wedding" is absolute bollocks. A marriage can be as cheap as you want it to be. There is no law saying it has to be a bells and whistle show off expensive day.

Two of my nieces are living with their boyfriends. Both are engaged, one getting married next year and one the following year. Both are absolutely adamant there will be no baby until they are married.

I must say too that if you are living together, hopefully having discussed how you both feel about marriage I don't really see the point of the big proposal

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam · 22/05/2018 09:16

Haha, I know helpme. Did you read my posts? I'm literally explaining why I believe we shouldn't introduce common law.

Also, there should of course be laws ensuring that children are provided for by both parents. That doesn't need muddying by making it about the relationship between the parents.

VladmirsPoutine · 22/05/2018 09:17

Some of the stories on the Relationships' board should be mandatory reading for young women.

WalkingOnAFlashlightBeam · 22/05/2018 09:18

Mountainsoutofmolehills I suppose in this day and age where termination is available and nobody has to go through with a pregnancy they don't want, it still makes sense to talk about choices. It's not like you have an unplanned pregnancy and then whether you like it or not a child arrives nine months later!

ShamelesslyPlacemarking · 22/05/2018 09:20

Surely she should have just insisted on the houses being owned in joint names? No need for marriage or formal rights - basic common sense really.

He had a lot more deposit than her; she had a more irregular income history that made the bank reluctant to include her on the mortgage; he convinced her it was better for her to keep her cash; she’s not great financially and after a previous abusive relationship was just grateful to find a man who seemed to care for her. For a lot of reasons she didn’t make a great choice; she trusted someone she was in love with.

Fortunately because not everyone makes perfect choices, she’s not going to be fucked over by this guy. But perhaps you think it would be fine if she was?

VickieCherry · 22/05/2018 09:20

Can someone please explain the legal protections someone is missing out on if you already have wills, pensions and life insurance naming each other as beneficiaries, both continue to work after having kids, and both earn a similar (decent) salary?

Also, a Hmm to the PP who thinks women only give their children their own names of they have them with a dead-beat. I would never change my name on marriage, and any children I might have would have my name because they're my children. Plus my surname is pretty and has an interesting history, but regardless of that the previous applies Hmm

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 22/05/2018 09:24

shsmelessly you can't legislate for stupidity. I feel really sorry for your relative but she knew he didn't want to marry her, thus giving her any legal rights and still she chose to spend all her money on someone else's asset.
I'd advise her to see a solicitor - if she can prove she added value to his house she could maybe get a charge put against the house and reclaim some of her investment.
But you can't give automatic legal rights to prople who haven't actively chosen to commit. If your partner doesn't want to give you that, it means you know very clearly where you stand and should make ypur oen choices accordingly.

Helpmeplan · 22/05/2018 09:24

Vickie there is a link I put up earlier to cab explanation. Please read it. Your life, you make your own decisions but all of which you have described should be done regardless of marriage or not.

GinDoll · 22/05/2018 09:24

My children have three different dad's. All of the fathers asked me to marry them. I turned the first two down because I just didn't want to. I thought it was because I didn't really believe in marriage but with hindsight (and being happily married bow) I think part of me knew something was wrong. And it was. The first turned out to be a lying, selfish arse who as of this year has seen his teenage sone maybe 20 times since he was 2. The second was hiding (very well for a long time) serious anger issues which led to domestic violence. I'm so glad I didn't marry them and have to deal with divorce as well as everything else. Marriage is just not everything. Okay so it can provide a safety net but sometimes it could make things worse. And not all women need to get married. A close (female) friend refused to marry her OH who wanted to marry before hey had children because she just doesn't want to get married. They've been together 20 years and he still asks.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 22/05/2018 09:24

Mountainsoutofmolehills Well said. It's not contracpetion failure, it's failure to use contraception correctly.

Vlad you are right. MN is depressing sometimes, but some women never learn. Every third post is some poor women at the shit end of life.

ShamelesslyPlacemarking · 22/05/2018 09:24

And for people who say you could have an opt out built in, for those with partners who are unwilling to marry, surely they would also insist on opting out of the common law rights?

You opt out retrospectively. That is, your relationship finishes and for various reasons you both want to just go your separate ways with an asset set that you agree on (eg what you came in with, or the separate finances you’ve preserved.) The law is quite happy for you to agree that.

But if one partner does not feel that’s fair, then they have to go to court to have the court make a decision based on the provisions of the law.

PrimalLass · 22/05/2018 09:26

Surely bringing children into the world is more serious?

I wanted kids. I wasn't fussed about marriage. Sometimes it is as simple as that.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 22/05/2018 09:27

Gin You certainly seem to find them!

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 22/05/2018 09:27

vickie the protection is if you split up. Non married prople can change wills and insurance beneficiaries etc, but married people can't so easily be cut out legally. The act of getting married means that you are protected from just bring thrown out of a house, even when it is just in the other person's name. It is a marital asset, as are pension rights etc.
For the wealthy it protects against inheritance tax.

LifeBeginsAtGin · 22/05/2018 09:28

I wanted kids. I wasn't fussed about marriage. Sometimes it is as simple as that.

Take that risk then.

WickedLazy · 22/05/2018 09:29

My ds was a surprise blessing contraception fail, or I would like to have been marriee first.

TwittleBee · 22/05/2018 09:29

We had our DS before marriage but I still wanted to get married to OH. DS was conceived as a happy accident on our first holiday away as a couple. DS is nearly a year old now and OH and I shall be getting wed in a week's time. It isn't the wedding we both would have liked and certainly is a million miles away from what my family wanted as it is just a 2+2 (+DS) wedding at (the very beautiful) Town Hall followed by a fancy lunch out with just the 5 of us.

Our priorities have changed since having DS, we have realised that we cant afford a £10k wedding right now with childcare costs and entering our first mortgage together but we do want to have the security of marriage and share the same name as a family. Currently DS has a joint barrel name and OH and I shall be taking that too. In a few years, maybe 5 maybe 10, we hope to re-new our vows in front of our all of family and friends.

We reached these decisions via discussions between ourselves like adults and a couple that are in a secure relationship. I find it baffling that some couple's are unable to communicate what they want to the other person yet think they are in a good relationship. My past experiences of relationships where I've felt unable to talk to my partner about my wishes or desires were bad relationships that were damaging to my mental health.

WickedLazy · 22/05/2018 09:29

*married

VickieCherry · 22/05/2018 09:33

@Helpmeplan I've already read it, thanks. I can't see anything that would affect the situation I stated, though?

@iwannaseehowitends Thank you, that makes sense. Though again, in the situation I stated the house is in both names and with an equal deposit.

WickedLazy · 22/05/2018 09:34

Although if we had gotten married, we'd now be facing divorce 🤔

And I wouldn't have been able to throw him out, when he cheated (house rented in my name).

TheFatkinsDiet · 22/05/2018 09:40

Well, fwiw, neither dh nor I proposed. We were chatting about it one day and just decided to go and buy an engagement ring. We both had the cold and celebrate with Lemsip Blush. This was when we were quite young 23 and 24 I think. We didn’t have children then. Had our first at 30 and 31.

We have done lovely, romantic things for each other before we got engaged and since, but not a proposal . We had been living together for a year and been together for most of university, so it seemed almost obvious we were going to get married at some point as we had talked about it and knew we were both the marrying kind.

I don’t know if I feel I missed out... a flashy proposal isn’t very ‘dh’ or me really. Anyway, the flashiest proposal I know of ended in divorce after 5 years, so it’s not the be all and end all. I do love it when dh surprises me with romantic stuff and I think he likes it when I do the same for him though, so maybe a big proposal would have been lovely. I guess I’ll never know!

Anywho, re the op. I kind of know what you mean. Tbh I don’t think the children make too much of a difference. I struggle a bit with the whole man has to propose thing. I don’t see why it has to be that way.