Influencer ethics on Instagram 2

[MadameGrizzly]

It appears we haven't quite finished workshopping the ethical issues of 'influencing' on Instagram: disclose of advertising, the exploitation of minors and the similarities to MLM schemes.

I have a few trains of thought on the MH feeds and posts and the ethics of instagrammers 'using it'

On one hand, I applaud the discussions, and to hear other people are not alone and have relatable experiences would, to some, be an outlet for their feelings, and a good thing, and allows perhaps for conversations to happen that may not.

Using MH as a marketing tool I do not agree with strongly.
"Come to MH event, it's about MH, and there's a goody bag and we are
All going to hashtag it" - to the average Joe Bloggs public this is can be perceived as glorifying it for the wrong reason.

• if only I was invited I might get out of this MH Hole
• I need a goody bag to lift my mood, it will really help
• I'm not good enough to be invited, I can't achieve that lifestyle, I am stuck in this rut and it's never going to get better.

It's the very reason I do not attend. I don't ever want MH to not be taken seriously.

It saddens me to see some instabloggers who happen to be in a MH profession, to be popular and also conveniently have amazing interiors, all the new clothes, all the gifts and sponsorships. It takes away hugely from what they could do. I think it's a thin line to push your profession when it's such a sensitive one, accompanied by what seems to be a beautiful lifestyle, that you aren't shy in discussing, as well as all of your gifts.

I personally feel very uncomfortable with certain professionals becoming disingenuous. That's the word I keep coming back to.

Be authentic. If you are in it for the cash opportunities, own it. Blurring the lines is what is continually making people question your ethics.

MOD came on here for chrissakes. Most people played nice. We're not monsters.

sparklefluff they're not in a mental health profession, that's the problem. They're not qualified at all.

@madamegrizzly I'm sorry I didn't mean you were being silly or getting upset at opposing viewpoints, you read very well. I was actually referring to the poster who came on saying that you can't have an opposing viewpoint.

Jam, I know of one who is. And it makes me uncomfortable.

And Jam, you're right.

We are no monsters at all, and I take offence that some woman on IG feels that's it's ok to call mumsnet users Bullies because she doesn't like their thoughts and opinions.

Bully isn't a word that should be thrown around lightly. Let's not make it a fashionable word IG mums.

My mistake, Boredandtired.

(See how nicely we can all play together? Misinterpretations, differing opinions and all.)

😇

@sparklefluff agree with your comments. And particularly the owning your account. If you are in it for the cash then be open about it. Don't hide behind mental health or a profession that barely features or is no longer who you are.

BoredandTired I agree, but just on here it seems. Because we’re not doing it I guess (ie we’re here rather than monetising children as content). It’s such a big thing now there must be many who think it’s ok. I’m more intrigued than anything, it’s a whole new world.

Although the disparity of the ‘mama’ language and coining it in from the dc with the ‘earthside’ cheque gets my goat. If you’re in it for the £ at least ‘fess up to it and own it as they say.

@madamegrizzly it's surprising when you read comments back and see that they could be taken in a different way and actually seem a bit rude! Easy to see why things get out of hand.

It is interesting as an observer what others are prepared to share, particularly of their children. And whilst I can draw my own opinion and use it to make decisions regarding my own children, it is up to these families what they do. For me the risk of my sharing not being appropriate in the future is too big a risk to take when it comes to kids and their well being,
I was fascinated by my daughter recently who came home from secondary school outraged because a national to station had been in filming her year group. She wanted to know how and why they were allowed when each child had not given consent. I explained that when they started school we signed to say if we were happy or not for photos etc to be taken and used. She felt this was a gross invasion of privacy and whilst we may have signed, she had not.

The difference is, I know you aren't trying to shut down the discussion and fill up the thread, boredandtired.

I'm not going to take offence to a different opinion or interpretation when someone has been posting thoughtful/clever/witty comments that make me think.

But that no engagement, dog with a bone, one idea, one sentence repeated ad finitum? 😖

My children's school thought I was THAT PARENT when I didn't want my children featured in a prac teacher's blog. I thought I was sensible!

@madamegrizzly well interestingly, and I will be taking it up, my child did have that initial consent withdrawn for a very good reason so whilst I didn't upset her with that, I'm not very impressed. Although she was not featured so perhaps it was checked before airing.

Boredandtired that's really interesting what you say your daughter said, she's got a really valid point there! Fascinating as you say and one parents should think about. We give our consent as parents for the children to be photographed, put on the schools social media accounts/websites etc, the children don't consent. Isn't that kind of the same thing with IGers/bloggers etc?

@CadyHeron I agree! And also at what age is consent from a child consent? At what age is the parental consent more important than the child's? And if an 8 yr old consents do they know what they are consenting to? Its a very interesting topic. It does seem like with education in schools these days children are becoming more aware of the issue of consent and who makes the choices. I would happily support any of my children requesting their right to their say, but then what if you disagreed! What if you child said it was fine to be put out there but you disagreed.
Not a question I can really answer. Just have to do what you think is right. But we are all so different.

I’ve been lurking on the thread for a while and thought i’d join in as I have quite strong views about the MH issue. While people sharing their own personal lived experiences can be really valuable, help others feel less alone, break down stigma and create dialogue, having a condition does not make you any sort of expert. It simply means you’ve learnt how to manage your condition.
If someone has a mental health condition it’s really important that they have a proper diagnosis and appropriate treatment which may include medication. There seems to be no mention of medication at all on a lot of the feeds i’ve seen on IG. While medication is not the answer for all MH conditions it may be what some people need and quite frankly if you need anti depressants then a lavender pillow is not going to help much.
I’m waffling now but trying to make the point that the NB event feels exploitative and there’s a risk vulnerable people are discouraged from seeking the expert support that they really need.

Just that, really, does boil down to everybody's different and have different boundaries when it comes to privacy.
I think as parents, we make the choices up to a point.
As you say though, where does that cut off come? At what age? They're still kids, you make decisions for them until old enough to say no.
Eg, I used to put pictures of my now teen on my private FB profile. (Nothing like potty training I hasten to add lol!)
For several years since about 9 yes old he hasn't wanted his picture posting after say, a day out that I post. Which I totally respect and don't do. His choice. 10 year old completely different and asks if I'm putting it on FB.Me - "not if you don't want me to." 10 year old - "yeah, go on, put it on!" totally different character.
If both were fine though and I wasn't? I think once they're out of say primary school age and starting to be more responsible for themselves, they should choose. When small kids the parents responsibility to do what's right for they family and try and make the right decisions.

Privacy aside, I think my children would also to be embarrassed by me or my husband having an online persona, known to many. Simon Hooper has a big insta identity and I'm not sure it's that favourable. It's pretty embarrassing, invasive and questionable. Could be hideously embarrassing to his kids. My daughter found her dad's twitter account and was mortified! But it wasn't about her and her family it's work based. From this perspective many of the instamums are far less embarrassing. Papapukka does some weird sandwiches but doesn't seem intent on sharing every section of his children's lives.

Your post has made me think of a potential line in the sand, FlyingBird, that I believe the majority of parents would agree with.

If your child's nursery/school wouldn't publish it, neither should you.

So a school wouldn't put a child's full name, date and place of birth, or any identifying address details online. Nor would a school publish images of a child outside their home, in their bed, in the bath or on their potty.

My children's school only publishes student first names in the newsletter and on their webpage which makes children harder to google. (This is perhaps redundant if Insta-parents surnames are plastered all over the Internet, though.)

So be guided by your school's online behaviour and you shouldn't go too wrong - unless you are like Mr FlyingBird and me and don't give the school permission to publish. At least I'm consistent!

@madamegrizzly I think this is not the case across the board. Unfortunately online presence with schools has moved so fast that it's not one size fits all.
Both schools I have children at would use full names in newsletters, which are published on websites. One school has a child with complex history and therefore the majority of photos are blurred or the backs of heads, the secondary school has the standard school promotion photos. But I googled my children's names and they came up at both schools. This is due to having done something or won something. Some schools also post pictures taken in class, again these are publicly available.
I agree they are not on the loo or half naked but it does seem even with schools there's no hard and fast rules.

Our school that no longer publishes surnames, fifteen years ago used to.

My now adult son is annoyed that there is quite a bit of information online about sports he participated in as a child as he controls his online footprint tightly.

The school would probably consider a change in policy if enough parents were behind it?

Bored -you say parents could be embarrassing and questionable just by having an online presence?
See, that's where we differ a bit as I don't see a problem with that .
Once we become parents, are we to have no semblance of personality or self?
I embarrass my young teen by merely breathing nowadays.
If he was to turn around and say my public Twitter or IG page was embarrassing, I'd be like "well, don't look then" lol!

@cadyheron I wasn't saying it in the sense that you shouldn't have an online presence. I was merely thinking that that may be just as embarrassing if not moreso than a toddler potty photo, if you see what I mean.
I'm sure many, many kids are mortified by their parents online/tv/films etc and I'm not suggesting no one should do anything. Just that like you pointed out, kids are different. One of mine probably wouldn't give a monkeys about a photo half naked or on a potty, because she was a child, but would be embarrassed by me being publicly outspoken.
Although in some cases parents could think about the impact of their choices. I know of a woman who uses her real name as her online hardcore porn persona and for her website. Her daughter at secondary school has had all the boys look it up. More than this she walks round soft play dressed the same.
Not suggesting anyone on Instagram is doing this!! Just discussion about responsibility as a parent or things to consider. There's no right or wrong. To be honest without the internet I grew up thinking my dad was an embarrassing dick.