To find dd's "best friend's" behaviour a bit odd?

[Midge1978]

Dd and her friend are both seven, which I know means they're not going to be socially sophisticated yet but hear me out. Dd says her friend tells her to go away at school and runs away when dd comes near her. On the occasions where they do "play", the friend dominates dd totally not letting her have a turn or awarding herself high scores and dd low scores.

However despite this dd seems fond of her. The friend always asks to come over and play at our house but ignores dd totally while she's here, just asking for food and watching tv. I really don't know why she wants to come so badly!

We invite other children round to try to encourage dd to mix with others and the dynamic is completely different and dd plays happily with them. I also try to reassure dd that it's not her fault when her friend is grumpy all the time but other than that, I'm not sure what else to do! Seems a funny friendship but maybe this is normal?

@50gradesofhay "...italiangreyhound you talk about "natural consequences" but I think this is a slightly cruel approach here as you are assuming the child would be able to work out for themselves the cause and the consequence. It sounds like this child would not be able to on her own."

What gives you the impression I would expect the child to work it out for themselves? My son is 7 and has had various 'run ins' with friends. I've told him that if the run ins keep happening he may lose the friendship. It might be a good thing if he does but he needs to know 'anti-social' behaviour can lead to things changing.

What would be cruel is for a child to be allowed to do a lot of anti social or unpleasant things and not be warned that a natural consequence of bossy bad behaviour is that one may well lose friends.

I'd suggest the teacher is the best person to speak to the girls together, as I suggested. Especially as the issues are happening at school. My son's teacher has been brilliant. However, another option is to talk to the parents but I'd always rather go via school.

Did you not discuss this behavior with friends mum??
I wouldnt encourage friendships like that

Sounds very like our asd daughter, also 7.

I’d also opt for more structured visits, like pp have suggested. Even if the girl has no additional needs, it sounds like she’d benefit from the structure too.

I think some kids do this a lot, being very unkind as a way to keep certain “ friends” wanting more.
When it happened to dd I limited invitations, and encouraged other kinder kids.

The friend hasn't been diagnosed with special needs. She's very academic all round but has meltdowns if she doesn't win awards or get full marks in a test

How well do you know her parents? Do you think there could be some behaviour from them that’s contributing to her behaviour? So if she’s having meltdowns at not getting full marks in tests, do you think there could be some pressure there from her parents to perform highly? Or maybe they are giving her the impression that she is better than other children and that’s why she looks down her nose so much at your DD?

They do say behaviour breeds behaviour, so just wondering if there’s anything going on at home that is contributing to her poor behaviour towards your daughter?

Why is every difficult child on this forum considered to have autism. My son has high functioning autism and does not behave like that child.
It is so insulting to kids on the spectrum who have difficulty, but yet strive everyday to be better.
Maybe she just is not a very nice child, and allowed to get away with terrible behaviour.

Think very very carefully before speaking to the parents.......

The friend sounds as if she could be on the autistic spectrum and cannot empathise. Whether or not she is ASD your DD is suffering. It’s tricky but your DD comes first. Any hobbies DD can develop where she can make other friends?

Your child must take priority and she needs to understand that friends don’t treat each other like that. Are you sure she’s only keen to have this friend over because your friends with the girl’s mum? If she does come over I think you’ll need to supervise the play and let the mother of this child know if you see any bad behaviour.

Why does every child have to have a label? An ex colleague of mine was telling me about his girlfriends awful son. He said he had NLBS. He spotted the puzzled look in my face and enlightened me-NAUGHTY LITTLE BASTARD SYNDROME 😂😂

Is she just knocking round when she likes?

I'd recommend hiding the Bourbons and the Hula Hoops and switching the Sky TV off at the wall for the next couple of visits. I have a feeling she won't be such a regular after that.

I had my neighbour's son knocking round regularly for a while. He didn't seem that keen on playing with my children. I heard him telling ds that he always comes round cos your mum makes really strong blackcurrant

baby5 one in 5 kids has additional needs. It's not that they, "have to have a label" but that if you have a disabled child, a diagnosis helps you support them, so their lives are happier and they can reach their potential.

I do hope none of your children has a disabled child. Your comments sound very like my MIL's. She can't fathom why DH wants very little to do with her, which is a real shame. For her.

1 in 5 children have special needs? I'm surprised it's as high as that. So 20% of our future adult population
Is this increase because we are better at diagnosing issues?

Does this child play with other children? Do you have feedback from other parents?
The child could have a specific learning difficulty - not necessarily autism- but she could also be being manipulative. I had a 'friend' like this as a child, and the behaviour did not stop until I took my father's advice and did what I wanted in terms of play, ignoring her refusals to participate. I found another 'best friend' and was not reliant on the manipulative girl. I still saw her but her behaviour became more manageable once she knew I was not dependent on her friendship.

Looking back, I think she had a lot of confidence issues and was trying to force me to be her 'hanger on'. (We were then in a situation where there were few children of my own age around).

Is this increase because we are better at diagnosing issues?

It's getting better, but no, diagnosis isn't good. I've known kids who my mother and I knew were ASD in reception, but didn't get schools connecting until they were in Yr 3 or so. Before that, the parents were blamed. Yet to parents with kids on the spectrum it was obvious at parties etc. Just obvious.

It's 1 in 5 adults, actually, so presumably some disability is acquired as life goes on. But if you think about it, 80% sounds a lot. So does 1 in 5. It's a lot in terms of how many families are affected, but it's not many in terms of how many can live their lives oblivious.

I think it's like race. If it doesn't affect you, you're pretty blind to the prevalence of racism. You aren't aware of it because it isn't part of your day to day life. You just accept that most media, and most power, is white because you're white so that becomes your default. I'm white and I have to make a conscious effort to notice this stuff. I think disability is the same - if it doesn't affect you, you assume it's not very common. But it is.

I'm wondering if you know the family?is the child troubled? Perhaps she is hungry?

You said this particular child is wat hing tele and asking for food. Well, I've had lots of children over when mine were that age, but I was very adamant about houserules being for everyone, not only for my children. So food would be offered at meal-time, maybe a light snack (for everyone!) right after school. And in my house no television was allowed in the morning, in the afternoon only after having been outside a healthy time. What I'm saying : if watching tele or snacking isn't the custom in your house, I wouldn't allow it to the visiting child either. She came to play, right?

I also thought about autism when I read the OP. Not because I'm flinging labels about for the sake of it. Not because I think what a pp described as negative and selfish behaviours automatically equate to autism.

No. I thought of autism because the girl described by the OP sounds very much like my DS at that age. My DS has been diagnosed with ASD - Asperger's.

I had a ‘friend’ like this at that age. She continued to see how far she could push me around until it became a full-on bullying situation. It basically ruined a whole school year for me, and really knocked my confidence. My Mum encouraged other friendships, and we managed to completely distance me from her. I would also mention the situation to her class teacher (although they may well already recognise the friendship is toxic). Hope she manages to make new friends soon.

I don't want to label people and I hate it when people casually give such labels but this looks a bit like borderline personality disorder

Borderline PD or indeed any other PD is not ever diagnosed in 7 year old children and especially not over the Internet.

Not saying this child is ASD though. I have absolutely no clue on the info given. Just wanted to make that point.

Latest figures according to US charities though are that ASD is probably more than 1 in 60. And when there was a mass survey done in this country recently, it was believed that hundreds of thousands of adults are undiagnosed. I completely believe that. And it's a shame that autism is so stigmatised, people dismiss diagnosis with sniggers as, "a label". Ha ha fucking ha. And it's a real pity because autism is not all deficit. There are now clear research based indications that autistic people can out-perform non-autistic in some areas.

There's a Channel 4 documentary called, "Are You Autistic?" I think people should watch it. It's enlightening, and explains that ASD people view and experience the world differently, but frequently that's invisible to people who are not autistic, who assume everyone is like them.

As the sibling, daughter in law and mother of autistic people, I find it hugely ironic that non-autistic people confidently aver that autism is about having no empathy, while being completely blind to the fact that not only are they failing to try to empathise with people who think, and experience, so differently to themselves... it never even crosses their minds that they could try. They see themselves as the normal, the correct, the right way to be, so seeking to understand and empathise with people who are different? Heaven forfend!

I am not convinced that autistic people (who must try every day to mask, to appear neurotypical, to negotiate a world where their mental pathway is very much in a minority and society is very much geared to a completely differently wired mind) are the primary culprits when a lack of empathy is at issue.

I don't want to label people and I hate it when people casually give such labels but this looks a bit like borderline personality disorder

Personality disorders cannot be diagnosed until people are in their 20s. This child is seven years old.

You can't change other children, you can only teach/ show your child how to deal with it and assert herself. Perhaps talk to daughter about how we expect people to behave and what a friend should be like. Maybe local library can help with some friendship story books?

Interesting points about autism. I remember reading that it's estimated 90% of the high achievers working on Wall Street are on the autistic spectrum. My point being that autism doesn't mean low performer.

Yes fair point PerfectStorm perhaps I am blind to the prevalence of autism because it doesn't directly affect me.

Perhaps there is a danger that although autism can explain types of "anti social" behaviour it shouldn't necessarily excuse the examples OP has given; Dominating her dd, not letting her have a turn at games, cheating to always win.
A child should still be corrected on that sort of conduct and taught it's not acceptable?

Why are people assuming autism when one of the points that OP mentioned is telling her to go away at school and running away, plus awarding herself high scores & DD low ones? This isn't autistic behaviour, it's manipulative shitty behaviour! It's the sort of behaviour that turns into full-scale bullying. And of course she'll ask to come over - she can control DD some more!!