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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think funding new grammar and faith schools is a bad idea.

451 replies

ConstantlyCold · 11/05/2018 08:05

Just that really. This will benefit pushy middle classes (like me) but not the kids that really need investing in.

Stupid idea.

OP posts:
BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 11/05/2018 16:14

My experience is they learn the content in normal class - especially if they are in extension groups which many are as they need to be a year ahead or more academically to pass. What they need practice in is exam technique that's all.

Metoodear · 11/05/2018 16:15

RosaGertrudeJekyll

This and in areas were the state primary’s so have bright children the schools will not even support parents to put their children for the 11+ because of their ideologies

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 11/05/2018 16:16

A bright child will be reading at the required level and using the language they will be learning the maths at the right level. For my dc when they sat it the requirements were to be working at level 6 at the time of sitting the 11+ (A month into year 6) which most high achieving state school kids could do.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 11/05/2018 16:16

They won't support it but will brag about them getting into the grammar school and their sats results... typical lefties!

BertrandRussell · 11/05/2018 16:17

It’s not just tutoring. I could tell you pretty accurately which children in a Reception class were going to pass the 11+ by looking at the brand of their shoes and the contents of their lunch boxes. It is much more complicated than grammar supporters would like to think.

caperberries · 11/05/2018 16:17

without sounding boastful, yes I can guarantee she'd have got a place in one. She's in the top 2%.

There @sluttybutty, I've fixed that for you Wink

arethereanyleftatall · 11/05/2018 16:18

I like the idea that only those chosen by their primary school teacher are allowed to enter the 11+.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 11/05/2018 16:19

Then you would probably have got your judgment wrong about my children (council estate pupil premium kids)

Metoodear · 11/05/2018 16:19

RosaGertrudeJekyll

This my fil is a judge

They have grammer system in full effect in Northern Ireland all siblings went to grammer and wanted dh to do the same he was tutored with in a inch of his life made no difference
He is practical so failed and actually was very badly behaved when young so spent most of his days in the heads office

He is now a nurse

His siblings are silks

BertrandRussell · 11/05/2018 16:19

“I like the idea that only those chosen by their primary school teacher are allowed to enter the 11+.”

Wow. You have more faith in primary school teachers than any other mumsnetter I have ever met.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot · 11/05/2018 16:20

It's not complicated. Specialist schools to meet the needs of children with specialist needs. Across the spectrum.

OrchidInTheSun · 11/05/2018 16:20

Why don't you work out the % of children in receipt of PP Bumpowder and tell us? PP is £935 per child.

I suspect it will be very, very low. Where I live, about 50% of kids get FSM. At my kids' grammar school, it's less than 10%.

arethereanyleftatall · 11/05/2018 16:20

You can't ban tutors, you'd have to then ban parental help as well (in some cases that'd be just as good), and that would be silly.

arethereanyleftatall · 11/05/2018 16:21

Really @BertrandRussell?
Ours are fab, I don't know about others.

BertrandRussell · 11/05/2018 16:22

“It's not complicated. Specialist schools to meet the needs of children with specialist needs. Across the spectrum.”

Why is being clever a specialist need? I can see how being genius level would be- but just clever? Nah.

The80sweregreat · 11/05/2018 16:22

our school does have an 11+ group - ( i am a minion at a school where ds2 went) and the head does an hour in the mornings with them once a week for a few weeks before the big exam. I was a bit surprised, but he went to a grammar school in the 80s himself and went to Oxford. I doubt he would put anyone off actually and i bet his own children will go to one!

Metoodear · 11/05/2018 16:24

BertrandRussell

Well you know nothing about council estates then I live on one

And the kids round here all were designers
It’s actually the kids who were hand me downs and parents driving battered volvos who have the money round here

Ticketsfrom · 11/05/2018 16:24

agree and I'm one of the 'deprived' who benefited from a grammar school education but where I came from 80% of the kids at my school were working class. It's not the same in England though where the class system is rampant and better off kids can afford tutors or for their parents to move to the grammar areas. The only ones it'll benefit are the middle-class kids ( mine now) who parents will do everything to get them in because of course you would, we all want the best education for our kids.
The govenment needs to spend the money on the schools that really need it.

arethereanyleftatall · 11/05/2018 16:24

Grammar schools aren't fair, but... most people want their children to go to one.

ScrubTheDecks · 11/05/2018 16:25

I am really lucky.

I have bright, high achieving kids, who are doing well in an excellent South London comp that does really well on every measure. Progress 8 for all abilities and social classes. Excellent results, bottom line and contextual, for all students. It has a high ratio of FSM and is as mixed, socially, religiously, culturally, racially and economically as any school could be. It is not in a posh area. It is in an expensive area because all of London is, but it is 'less expensive' for buyers and has huge densities of social housing and private rented across catchment.

This is where the government should put their money. Creating good comps everywhere. All children achieving well, with subjects that suit them, taught at their speed, to go up and down sets as best needed to support them, whatever that might be, with an equal chance every year.

Not airlifting clever (middle class) kids out of comps and leaving behind a secondary modern with dwindling investment.

This move will further polarise schools, society, rich and poor.

Hang your heads in shame, May and supporters.

ScrubTheDecks · 11/05/2018 16:27

arethereanyleft No, I really don't want my children to go to a grammar school. I don't see the need, I think their education and social lives would be impoverished (I went to one).

Metoodear · 11/05/2018 16:27

BertrandRussell

It’s not about faith their is a gifted and talented registerer coupled with the top stats childen you have your entrants

Then again at 13 that’s is all

Middleoftheroad · 11/05/2018 16:29

without sounding boastful, yes I can guarantee she'd have got a place in one. She's in the top 2%.

Unfortunately you can't guarantee how any child will perform under the pressure of on the day test conditions.

My DS primary head told me that the brightest child he'd ever taught in 25 years (in y6 she was doing advanced secondary level work way beyond the old level 6). She didn't pass the 11 plus.

There is no guarantee.

The80sweregreat · 11/05/2018 16:30

scrubthedecks, very well put.

rainingcatsanddog · 11/05/2018 16:33

“I like the idea that only those chosen by their primary school teacher are allowed to enter the 11+.”

That wouldn't help as pushy parents could still badger the teacher into selecting their child for 11+. Considering that many parents happily become religious to get kids into the tight primary school, I'd daren't imagine how far they'd go for a 11+ spot.