To think funding new grammar and faith schools is a bad idea.

[ConstantlyCold]

Just that really. This will benefit pushy middle classes (like me) but not the kids that really need investing in.

Stupid idea.

Have you been a bright (as in exceptional) student in a comprehensive school?

And saying they'll be catered for is a bit like saying children at the other end of the spectrum will be well catered for too. But to suggest that causes uproar

why don't people like to accept and acknowledge intelligent children exist and need to be catered for?

People do accept that. But it is often the case that:

• children develop at different rates so a single test at 11 isn't necessarily a good indicator of intelligence
• some parents will pay a lot for tutors so the highest test scores aren't necessarily a good indicator of intelligence
• it would be better to cater for those children within the same school environment as other students rather than segregating them

Glue

Agreed that it's not a hard and fast rule, but I've seen it in more places that have grammar systems than the situation you describe.

When I went to school the choices in my catchment were either the Grammar school which was (and still is) one of the top 20 schools in the UK, or a comprehensive in special measures where the average child left with 5-7 GCSEs total if they were lucky and a teacher being assaulted was a weekly occurence.

Patriarch it's unlikely a high achiever in grammar will fail too reach potential.

Overall they will. Not so in comprehensive. Its why we now have to the progress 8. Because too many primary age high achievers were not reaching expected potential by the time they left.

“why don't people like to accept and acknowledge intelligent children exist and need to be catered for?”

I do.

A lot of schools are now bringing in 11+ exams that you cannot coach children through to neutralise the tutoring effect.

“A lot of schools are now bringing in 11+ exams that you cannot coach children through to neutralise the tutoring effect.”

No such thing.

Burn, nobody is saying that bright / gifted children shouldnt be catered for , but doing this is just keeping the middle classes happy - no school fees to find and the children will mingle with the right type of people. A vote winner, which is what this is all about.
All children deserve a chance.

Faith schools are a terrible idea.

Then clearly you haven't been in a grammar school lately. The one my dc go to has a right mix of parents. The only stand out thing I've noticed is they're very much older parents as in clearly had their kids in their late 30s and 40s but otherwise the backgrounds are hugely mixed.

What % of pupil premium children?

The only way to neutralise the tutoring effect is by helping state primary children get access to some resources.

I simply personally don't feel a child being tutored for a year hours 📴 hw per week gets any advantage over one who is shown how to do nvr, shown some other stuff and does examine technique. As well as 😣 identifying the children who would benefit would instantly equal playing frield.

But labour supporters don't want to level the playing field in this way they want to abolish grammar schools. Grammar schools will never go as long as private schools exist.

I don't know Bertrand. The school has the monetary value received from pupil premium on its website and it seems fairly substantial

I agree primary schools need to support their pupils more but there are no performance pay incentives to do so unlike the sats so they wont.

PatriarchyPersonified

Bumpowder

But the brightest are catered for perfectly well in a fully streamed comprehensive system.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Bertrand Russel whilst some grammar may have good mix of pp many won't because of reasons I stated earlier.

That is a pp child in a state primary will get no help to do the test so how can they access grammar. And more over you don't want to them too because you want grammar to stop.

So in the mean time I guess more bright dc will simply not access grammar.

I do like that no one has taken my comment up about the other end of the spectrum being catered foe in a good comprehensive system...oh that's because they won't be. So why does one end get specific schools and the other people want to abolish?

Grammar schools are no more about class than many comps are. Some grammars have more pp kids in than comps.

Could you link to an example?

RosaGertrudeJekyll Or we could allow the only way to sit the 11+ is that you have to be selected by your primary school and we could have a system

We’re by state primary’s have more children they can select
Religious schools less and
Private schools the lowest amount

Maybe the schools shouldnt allow the children that have had tutoring do the exam? this wont stop them getting help on line i suppose and would be hard to police ' dont tell them that mrs x comes here every monday night' or whatever., keep it quiet. might work, but i cant see it.
anyway, i guess private schools are okay as people pay for that so any government see that as a winner, regardless of colour! the rich will never go away completely of course. If Grammars are abolished, most children will go the private route.

Bum powder so much more can be done. Once discussing it is allowed it will open it all up.

Parents who have been through the system DIY tutor can help.. Etc. At the moment in so many schools in the grip of the left you can't even mention it.

I asked dd teacher last year... Do you think she could cope with 11+, cue heavy sigh and a really boring lecture on why she doesn't belive in 11+ and how it's snobby.

The 80s and what about parents who are teachers!!

We got that attitude from our primary school (A school full of teachers permanently on strike) just a load of sneers of why would I want to subject my children to THAT school. The change and support needs to come from the feeder schools.

i didnt think of that one!! lol. no, it would never work.

I guess the crux is how many hours of tutoring gives the advantage. I honestly belive that nvr would give someone advantage who had done loads.. And exam technique... But I bright child who gets it... Who does all the normal stuff they do ie read extensively.. Have good vocabulary.. Strong in maths.. Really wouldn't need much exposure to past papers, ideas on techniques and timing.. To pass.