To think funding new grammar and faith schools is a bad idea.

[ConstantlyCold]

Just that really. This will benefit pushy middle classes (like me) but not the kids that really need investing in.

Stupid idea.

Absolutely yes. Grammar schools educate the best x% in an area at passing exams, whether through natural intelligence or pushy parents or both - ie kids who will do well regardless. The focus has got to be on those who aren't mega intelligent and/or whose parents don't value education - ie the ones who actually need some help. I can't believe it's 2018 and we're still having this debate.

Its a terrible idea - i know so many people who go to church years1- 5 and 6 for the good secondary schools, then stop after year 7 and would struggle to find the blooming church once the child is in. ( well, i know of one couple that did this )
its just more divide and rule and Mrs May is a fan as she went to a grammar school i believe? anyway, its just giving more to the rich in my opinion - so glad my two are not at school anymore! Tories love kicking the poor or the ones that are not deemed as 'clever' enough.
Mind you, some teachers only like the clever children anyway i think. rant over.

And it’s incredibly naive to think kids from deprived backgrounds have the same chance of achieving a place in a grander school as those with affluent parents.

And if you got off your soap box, waxing lyrical about things you clearly know nothing about, you see the entrance exam queues on a Saturday Morning in December, 700 deep of Black African immigrant families, who invest very heavily in their children, often working three jobs, to pay for music and other extra curricular lessons. They value education, they know it's the root out of poverty

I worked in an exclusive private girls school, with a large intake of celebrity and diplomats children. I couldn't understand why 60% of them were on FSM. Black African children, migrants, not first generation, all on scholarships, from one of the worst sink estates in South London.

So tell me again about this 'privilege' they have? Because all I see is a work ethic.

They are not funding "new" grammar schools. They have managed to find £50m to throw at existing grammar schools - despite the fact that non-selective state schools are so skint that they are literally having to ask parents to pay for essential, basic education equipment.

It's a vote-winning policy, though.

(They are not allowed to fund "new" grammar schools without new legislation. And they're a bit busy with some fuss over Europe at the moment.)

My kids go to a grammar school - I still think they're a dreadful idea. They are dominated by middle class children in an area which is predominantly poor and working class. And the reason for that is not that the working class kids are less intelligent but because their parents don't have the wherewithal or cash to help their kids pass. Without practice, very few children pass. And the practice papers are expensive and you need to understand why the answers are what they are.

If primary schools were allowed to prep children (in the same way they do for the SATs), then it might not be so awful. But they're not and so the grammar system just tips the balance in favour of MC educated families.

And more faith schools when about 40% of the UK population say they have no faith is ridiculous. Plus they're hugely divisive

And if you got off your soap box, waxing lyrical about things you clearly know nothing about

Feel free to educate me then. Where are the studies showing grammers improve social mobility.

I just did.

Newyear are you saying that 60% of the pupils at an exclusive private school are on full scholarships and poor enough to qualify for free school meals?

2.6% of Grammar School pupils receive free school meals (as of 2017) yup really inclusive and great for social mobility!

there are a few grammars and high schools around in a town not too far from us and they have great facilities already and are well funded, i often see children going there on the bus from here and we have two very good ( comps) schools that are unfunded and falling apart. No extra money for them and thats been that way for years and years.
Where is the fairness , where is all this money suddenly coming from when we're told there isnt any money for other things that we also need?

Totally agree. My kids have lots of stories about their teachers using their wages to buy stuff that should be covered by the government like textbooks.

Grammers did improve social mobility in the 1950s in certain areas, the results were often manipulated so the poorer kids from outside the borough couldnt get in , or not easily anyway. My dad went to see one of the governers when he was trying to get my 1950s born brothers into a secondary modern school out of the area ( they didnt pass the 11+ which they all had to take)and he told him as much! it was easier to hide in those days - nepotism, back handers, it all went on and will do today as well. its not what you know its who you know in education that matters a lot of the time, and faith schools are even worse for all this.

This has made me so angry. Yet again another nail in the coffin for working class families.

I am actually in favour of grammar schools if they were to be found all over the Country rather than in select areas. If primaries were allowed to prep all children and if private tutors were banned. It is the principle I am in favour of.

Any available money for education and improving schools should be shared amongst all schools with particular emphasis on areas that need more support. This is such a divisive decision the bloody tories should be ashamed of themselves.

People often mention how grammar school changed their life but anecdotally, these days they are full of children who were tutored for the exams and many of them would be in private school if they didn't pass.

pink, they dont care, its all for votes so May doesnt lose her seat in an area rammed full of lovely well kept grammer schools that attract the best teachers and so on and on. dont give a monkeys about all the other kids in the area.
makes my blood boil.

Somebody mentioned disadvantaged children getting extra money but that's based on parental income and not SEN need.

My children don't have SEN but increased investment in children with SEN would improve their experience at their comprehensive.

Keeping the rich richer, the 20k a year to send them to a decent private school ( or whatever the fees are) is a nice holiday for them all in the summer or more for the trustfunds.

My feelings on grammar schools are complex, and on balance I'm in favour of selective education USED CORRECTLY.

I am utterly, 100% opposed to faith based schools of any flavour. It simply should not be allowed.

“2.6% of Grammar School pupils receive free school meals (as of 2017) yup really inclusive and great for social mobility!”

In our town the grammar school and the high school are a mile apart. The grammar school has less than 2% PP- the high school 36%.

So unless you think poor children are inherently less able than better off ones.....

"They have managed to find £50m to throw at existing grammar schools"

This isn't new money. It's the old political trick of a double announcement IYSWIM. There is already money earmarked for the creation of new secondary school places, ready for the demongraphic bulge which is coming up through primary. This is how part of the budget will be used.

It sort of makes sense - if you are in a grammar area, then the number of grammar places increases to match the number of expected pupils, so it's still the same percentage of the age cohort.

Every day you read threads about children with SEN and how parents are struggling to find the help they need for their children, yet all this money can be found for this?

Figment without sounding boastful, yes I can guarantee she'd have got a place in one. She's in the top 2%.

Top 2% of what.

Numerous studies show social mobility had ceased since the decline of the grammar school. why? because socialists like to keep the working classes in their little boxes where they can be controlled.

Alternatively, grammar schools were set up because after WW 2 there were not enough people to fill management positions.

Grammars were introduced to get some wc children up to mc standards to work at a higher level, immigration was encouraged for the wc jobs those promoted would not fill.

Personally I think if you want to go for selection then a first, middle and high school model would be better with true specialisms at the high schools. Children can travel further at 14 than 11 and are likely to have already made GCSE option choices.

Oh and as for the best teachers in grammars, I'm not the only teacher who won't work in one.

The80s it's the opposite with us grammar schools have the books falling apart,have lost their library etc.

Will this change that or just spread a very thin budget within grammar schools even thinner?