young buck getting too big for his boots? AIBU to take it personally?

[wildbhoysmama]

A bit of background: I have been in my position for 23 years, I have stayed in the school because I love it and love the kids. I know I am a damn, good teacher and am highly respected. I'm involved in the wider school in many ways, have led many curriculum changes etc , have excellent results across the school and am first in everyone's mind for this promotion, head of department. I was approached 10 years ago to go for the same job but felt that my children were too young ( 4 and 18 months at the time). Since, my colleague has done the job excellently, but is now retiring so.the job is available again.
So far, so straightforward. I am completely prepared that someone may do a better interview and, if so, I would still be happy to stay in my position and support the new head. BUT a huge shock came my way today when aforementioned young buck has told me he is also applying for the job. He, of course, has every right to, but it has blindsided me. Let me explain: He is 26 and has only been teaching almost 2 years; he was a probationer 2 years ago and I was his mentor ( basically teaching him everything I know, giving him huge amounts of time and help, solving his discipline issues, and really going the extra mile for him); he is a decent class room teacher but no more, he still has development issues; he has never taught Higher ( A level) or National 5 (GCSE ) except for once a week with my classes to give him experience; he has not marked the exams ( you can't until you've taught for 4 years); has little grasp of quality assurance etc; what he has done is go on every group going and made himself very visible ( Rights respecting school, growth mindset, Pedagogy).
. I really like him as a person - in a much younger brother kind of way- but cannot believe he would treat me with such a lack of respect. Am I taking it too personally? It feels like he thinks he could do the job better than me, the person who still helps him out constantly. It feels as like he is stepping on me to get where he wants to be with no regard for me or the department. I was shocked, then hurt and now I'm angry. I would never say anything, I'm a professional, and others have expressed disbelief so AIBU to feel.the way I do?

Colleagues having ambition and competing against you (even if their faith in themselves is misplaced) shouldn't be this difficult for you. You sound very fragile.

“you think IABU to be surprised that someone with such limited experience would think they could do such a demanding job?”

If you expressed mild surprise then no, how could anyone say you’re being unreasonable. It would be a completely benign observation.

But that’s not what you did and trying to pass off your op as merely expressing surprise or that people are talking issue with you being “tongue in cheek” is completely disingenuous on your part.

You expressed judgment, claimed personal offence and questioned the other persons ability to do the job and their personal character for even considering applying.

Very interesting about the fact that men think they can do a job and women doubt themselves. I don't doubt myself and I'm not fragile. I was saying that some of the comments last night were upsetting ( that I'm institutionalised/ past it/ ineffectual etc) when I give my job everything and am proud how much I have helped/ help the future of many, many children who live in a tough, unforgiving environment.

Quimby, you're right I have judged and questioned his ability to do the job, because he would struggle enormously to the detriment of the kids and the school. Being on a committee does not a manager make ( I am also on a fair few and have been on many over the years). He clearly feels he could do the job, which I see as misplaced. I did take it as a slight yesterday, but now with a new day I am focusing on me, my career and my family. Sadly, I won't see him in the same way any more, but will always remain professional.

Do you not have any self awareness of how bizarre you're still sounding? 'I won't look at him in the same way again' - for trying to better himself? Yeah, what a prick

Lack of respect", "stepping on the department"-

Op, get over it. He's entitled to apply, it's not about you.

Maybe he wants the interview practice.
Maybe he's thinking he's a realistic candidate.
Maybe he wants to make you look like a stronger contender.
Maybe he's just wanting to nosey about how the interview process works.

Doesn't matter. It's nothing to do with you.

The way you speak about him and his plans isn't reasonable, and that's a total side point away from the "men having more confidence" aspect.

I don't doubt myself and I'm not fragile. I was saying that some of the comments last night were upsetting

You are (still) obviously put out and upset by his decision to go for this job and that's shone through the entire thread.

If he'd beaten you to it, being upset would be understandable. It's getting so worked up about his application that's odd.

You won’t see him in the same way because he’s applying for a job? Seriously??

This is madness!

He can apply for whatever job he wants to, its got nothing to do with you.

Hi, Op. I am in Scotland so understand exactly what you are saying. Also with the "new" (I suspect I have been in the system just as long) system there are no APTs or any steps between ordinary teacher and PT. Additionally, there seem to be a lot coming out of teacher training who are utterly convinced of their own magnificence. I had something similar - younger teacher (different subject) who tried to join in (fine) support (great) but then take over something that I set up and have been running for years. She recruited pupils, stuffed a committee with her friends and used her new "experience" to begin to apply for promotions.

The Scottish system for promotion is hugely frustrating. However, they have to score interviews based on your answers to questions and you will do far, far better.

In my school (tiny) the only PTs are Guidance and I can't do these jobs (no one to take up slack in my single teacher department) and so went down the Chartered Teacher route. I am not even a dinosaur now, but someone who predates the dinosaurs.

“who are utterly convinced of their own magnificence”

Something nobody could accuse the OP of

It took me a fair few pages to realise that you were in fact female and not male - the OP read very much as a 60 ish year old male teacher, with his nose pushed out of joint, whose grasp of appropriate punctuation did not adequately reflect how much of a 'damn, good teacher' he was.
Succinctly - you need to concentrate on your career progression, and let the 'young buck' concentrate on his.

I think you are being a tad mean, he wants to further his career and get some interview experience, presumably the post has criteria to apply and if he meets them why should be not apply. My cousin went to interview for a deputy head position in a primary school last month and is only 2 years qualified. I thought it was a bit odd, but he said it's just how things are done, and being a male teacher in primary gives him a little advantage.

You know what, Quimby, you don't know me. If you did you would realise how wrong you are.

Tinlegs- thank God someone who understands the Scottish system. I was APT in the old system ( and subsequent conserved salary) and have loved/ love my job, school.and pupils, which is why I haven't/ don't want to leave. I'm in a school where no one wants to leave.

I don't know if I'll get the job, I will respect the person who does get it over me, but I don't think people with very little experience should be able to apply. Teaching in Scotland is rapidly going downhill.

Ps You're never a dinosaur, you're the tribe elder! Good luck with that one person department, a hard shift.

You should post this in the Staffroom section not aibu.

There are so few HOD type vacancies now that people will jump when they see one. But I can see how it seems disrespectful to go for the same job as the person mentoring you. Once someone is in post they might stay there for twenty years so really if someone wants promotion they need to jump. You mention being part time which sadly might count against you. Put this behind you and just go all out for the interview.

I don't think it is a slight against you. In his mind, it is quite possibly nothing to do with you.

One day he probably does want to be head of department, either in your school or elsewhere. By applying he has told everyone this. I think doing an interview in a school where he works sounds reasonable.

If he was confident he was going to get the job, or if he said he thinks he can do a better job than you, then that would be all the things you are feeling. Applying is not.

Maybe he thinks you are not that committed to becoming a head of department as you have never applied for one before.

Mistressgigi- I didn't know there was a staff room section, thank you. How do I go about moving it?

There are two other PT posts in the city right now too, but he doesn't want to apply fir those. Strange. Thank you for understanding.

You are making this about you. He is just thinking about the role. YABU

Ride on - he has stated he thinks he could get it, thus why he is applying. He knows my commitment - we have discussed my applying for it for a year now.

Different profession but a 'young buck's' perspective (pretty patronising reference actually!) from a long time ago.

As a 4 year post-grad HR Manager, I was told 'encouraged' by the top team, to apply for a much more senior departmental role, which would have involved promotion over colleagues with up to 20 years more experience than me. 2 or 3 of whom were not only also applying, but who (understandably) made it very clear I was nowhere near qualified/ experienced for the job (I wasn't, it was heavy industrial relations stuff requiring TU relationships built on trust over a long time). Looking back, I don't know what this top team were thinking.

Imagine how uncomfortable this whole experience was ? Imposter syndrome city! Quite rightly I didn't get the job and frankly I didn't find being put through the ringer for something I wasn't ready for, a useful experience either. However, it ticked all the diversity & management initiative checklists for encouraging upward movement of graduate trainees. If I hadn't applied, without doubt it would have counted against me (next interview a year later 'we were so impressed to see you apply for xxx role').

Have you thought that this person is applying for similar reasons - that if he doesn't, he'll be discounted for future opportunities for lacking motivation/ ambition? Have you thought he's feeling very awkward about the whole situation?

Focus on your own interview and reasons why YOU deserve the role - leave the rest to the selection process.

You said he said he wouldn't move schools but I would never tell someone I work with I wanted to move companies even if I did so I would take that with a pinch of salt. I can't really comment on the rest of it though as this sort of thing would be normal in my industry and doesn't bother me in the slightest, teaching is probably a different culture.

What should he do? Stay in the same role for 23years like you have before daring to apply for promotion?
You have a very high opinion of yourself in your job therefore i am sure no one will be competition to you!

OP, I think I was the person to introduce 'institutionalisation' last night and I'm really sorry that I upset you.

I do think that you're approaching this very emotionally, which I think is inevitable when you consider that your relationship with your school has lasted longer than most marriages! You will certainly need to show in your application that you have broad horizons beyond your school but it sounds like you have no shortage of hard evidence of your impact.

I'm not familiar with career progression in the Scottish system and it does sound very different to the English context that I am used to. Both DH and I were promoted early in our careers and I'm afraid that I bristle at the attitude that this must have been because we were cheap or malleable. In both of our cases it was because there was literally no-one else to do the job so we had to learn very quickly. Once we got the second and third roles at that level or above, however, it was because we were (and are) very good at what we do. DH was a headteacher at 37, which will no doubt make many clutch their pearls.

It's as reductive to suggest that someone with many years experience is a dinosaur or institutionalised as it is to suggest that someone younger and promoted early is an upstart. I shouldn't have fallen into the former trap last night, and perhaps other posters could attempt to avoid the latter.

The very best of luck with your application

I think you are being very unreasonable to take this so personally. If he's as inexperienced as you say, he doesn't stand a hope in hell. Welcome the competition, let him fail, and let him learn a lesson by doing so.

It's NOT about you - it's about his inflated sense of his own competence and experience. Step back and see the situation with a rather more amused eye.

but do you think IABU to be surprised that someone with such limited experience would think they could do such a demanding job?

Christ alive. Despite almost 150 posts saying yes YABmassivelyU - you still think he shouldn't apply! It's up to him! He's confident. That's not a bad thing - why are you still seeing it as a personal affront to you. You were the very last thing on his mind when he decided to apply.

Seveal posters here have been made HoD after two years. It's not beyond the realms of possibility.

He probably thinks he’ll be fine if he gets the job because you’ll be around to help him

Try to remember, he isn’t trying to take the job away from you (though I can completely understand why you would feel like that) he is just trying to do everything that he can to get ahead. It’s not uncommon to apply for stuff out if your league ‘for the experience’ and that is all that is happening here.