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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

young buck getting too big for his boots? AIBU to take it personally?

174 replies

wildbhoysmama · 09/05/2018 20:39

A bit of background: I have been in my position for 23 years, I have stayed in the school because I love it and love the kids. I know I am a damn, good teacher and am highly respected. I'm involved in the wider school in many ways, have led many curriculum changes etc , have excellent results across the school and am first in everyone's mind for this promotion, head of department. I was approached 10 years ago to go for the same job but felt that my children were too young ( 4 and 18 months at the time). Since, my colleague has done the job excellently, but is now retiring so.the job is available again.
So far, so straightforward. I am completely prepared that someone may do a better interview and, if so, I would still be happy to stay in my position and support the new head. BUT a huge shock came my way today when aforementioned young buck has told me he is also applying for the job. He, of course, has every right to, but it has blindsided me. Let me explain: He is 26 and has only been teaching almost 2 years; he was a probationer 2 years ago and I was his mentor ( basically teaching him everything I know, giving him huge amounts of time and help, solving his discipline issues, and really going the extra mile for him); he is a decent class room teacher but no more, he still has development issues; he has never taught Higher ( A level) or National 5 (GCSE ) except for once a week with my classes to give him experience; he has not marked the exams ( you can't until you've taught for 4 years); has little grasp of quality assurance etc; what he has done is go on every group going and made himself very visible ( Rights respecting school, growth mindset, Pedagogy).
. I really like him as a person - in a much younger brother kind of way- but cannot believe he would treat me with such a lack of respect. Am I taking it too personally? It feels like he thinks he could do the job better than me, the person who still helps him out constantly. It feels as like he is stepping on me to get where he wants to be with no regard for me or the department. I was shocked, then hurt and now I'm angry. I would never say anything, I'm a professional, and others have expressed disbelief so AIBU to feel.the way I do?

OP posts:

Buxbaum · 09/05/2018 21:20

Is experience not valued any more?

I take it you haven't spent much time in some really tough urban schools. We jokingly measured our experience in dog years.

It might take more than three years to become really good at most things but it takes a lot less than twenty-three years to become institutionalised.

Pengggwn · 09/05/2018 21:21

Not everyone becomes 'institutionalised'. There is no reason a person who has worked somewhere for twenty years can't do a good job in a leadership role. But I don't think the OP is likely to fall into that group, given her frankly horrible attitude towards her junior colleague.

BettyPitts · 09/05/2018 21:22

Are you a tiny bit concerned in case he gets it and people wonder why you didn't?

I'm saying that kindly as I understand why that would be a worry. Try to think of your own interview and good luck

ZibbidooZibbidooZibbidoo · 09/05/2018 21:22

And I agree with whoever said you’ve been patronising with your use of “young buck”. But it’s ok, we know it’s bravado. Your fear is showing

Pringlecat · 09/05/2018 21:23

If you were ready for the promotion 10 years ago and let it pass you by (even though it was for valid reasons), there may be a perception that you're unambitious and quite happy in your current role. It probably didn't occur to him that that you would apply given you haven't previously - I imagine he told you in your capacity as his mentor, rather than as his competition.

If you do actually want to go for this role, you may be surprised as to how many people are surprised by that move. Don't let it put you off though. If you think you have the experience and you want it, be brave!

However, do entertain the possibility that this "young buck" is good enough for the role and may actually have surpassed you. If he does get this promotion instead of you, see it as a compliment to your mentoring rather than a slight.

strayducks18 · 09/05/2018 21:23

Sounds like he want to fast track his career and even if he doesn't have a shot at the job this time it will show that he has ambition and won't be hanging around if the current school can't offer him career development.

You sound very silly and if you don't think he has a shot I have no idea what your problem is.

SilverySurfer · 09/05/2018 21:24

I don't understand why you feel hurt. Is this guy supposed to vegetate in his present role until you have been promoted or moved on or retired? Is he to show no interest in advancement? It's pretty unlikely he would be successful with only two years experience but he is letting them know he is interested in advancing. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

YABU to feel hurt and take it personally, nor do I understand the need to describe him as a young buck - very patronising of you. You obviously feel threatened.

Buxbaum · 09/05/2018 21:24

Not everyone becomes 'institutionalised'.

Agreed. But I think there's a pretty big overlap between the kind of people who do, and the kind of people who think that they are more deserving of promotions because they have bided their time.

HopeClearwater · 09/05/2018 21:25

I take it you haven't spent much time in some really tough urban schools

Well yes I have ... and I want it bloody valued!!

SuperPug · 09/05/2018 21:25

Hmmm... I see why you would be annoyed even though he has the right to apply.
I think it is a bit shit that some people are mentored to rapidly get into senior management without a decent foundation of teaching and experience. I wouldn't really see someone with two years of experience as a viable choice for a HOD role.
Best of luck for your interview OP.

Pengggwn · 09/05/2018 21:27

Buxbau

Maybe, but having young children is a fairly good reason to hold off. I would tend to agree with the OP that experience counts for a lot in a HoD role. You need your own teaching to be sharp, you need to be able to assess accurately, you need to know the specs, be able to handle and present your data, know the coursework requirements, understand processes for ordering, hiring, quality assurance etc. It's a big job. I would prefer to have someone experienced.

But I would prefer to have someone who eschewed the term 'young buck' more.

MadMags · 09/05/2018 21:28

You’re being ridiculous and overdramatic!

Hurt because someone is going for a promotion? Do you realise how utterly batshit that is?

Unicorndiscoball · 09/05/2018 21:29

I was a HoD in my fourth year of teaching and am now on my third HoD position.

Also I recently went for a promotion that I erroneously believed I was a ‘shoe-in’ for and didn’t get it. It stung. I thought I would definitely get it and I didn’t, and it’s not been fun. Particularly as it went to a colleague. However none of us is entitled to any particular position, and I’ve had to get over it. Your colleague is not insulting you by applying, he’s giving it a go, and he’s quite within his rights to do so.

HopeClearwater · 09/05/2018 21:29

The OP has given perfectly sound and acceptable reasons for her career trajectory so far, connected to her family responsibilities, yet lots of pp have fallen into the trap of seeing career progression from the male point of view AGAIN. This is why the glass ceiling exists.

Shame on you lot for measuring OP’s 23 years in the patriarchal dog-eat-dog ‘do a job for more than 3 years and you’re shit’ male-dominated mindset.

Original poster

wildbhoysmama · 09/05/2018 21:30

Hopeclearwater - thank you for understanding, you express it well.
Juells- maybe you're right smile but it isn't in my nature, unfortunately.

Pictish - my phone is doing bizarre things, I'm afraid. There's no need to be nasty. I AM aware there is no comma needed.

Bauxbam-I'm sure you were fabulous ( and are) but it is unheard of up here for someone to apply for HofD outwith 5 years experience at least. I am not institutionalised, as explained I love my school and wasn't in a position to go full time for many years.

Thank you all. I think I'll back away now.

OP posts:

LanaorAna2 · 09/05/2018 21:37

OP, just so you know, MN can turn savage at random; this is one of those times.

YA a teeny bit U - the guy can apply all he likes; on the other hand, but it's understandable to feel a bit hurt esp given you tried really hard to help him.

Good luck in the interview.

TheFirstMrsDV · 09/05/2018 21:38

Glad I am not the only one to dislike 'young buck'
I reminds me of the phrases used to dismiss women.
We don't like those on mn do we?

LanaorAna2 · 09/05/2018 21:39

Oh, it's shoo-in, not shoe-in - my bit of teaching for the day.

chattykathyblue100 · 09/05/2018 21:39

I totally get where you're coming from OP. I've met many young men (bucks) who think they are God's gift to teaching. One example was when a colleague with 25 years' experience was told by a post NQT he would give her a job when he made Head Teacher in a couple of years! It is a sign of disrespect to his colleagues and the profession to think he has the skills and experience to run a department after a couple of years. He won't get the job though unless the SLT are misogynists

beardedlobster · 09/05/2018 21:41

I think you are BU.
Just for some perspective I myself personally applied and interviewed for jobs I knew were above me so I could get interview experience and also so I knew what I had to be developing on and working towards. I know a lot of people who think this way. I would spin it around that you have obviously inspired him to be ambitious.
It does not mean he will get it above you but even if he did you would still be unreasonable to blame him!
Best of luck for your own interview.

MadMags · 09/05/2018 21:41

Young buck is a bit derogatory in this instance, isn’t it?

If he were to come on here and call you an old cow (for example) there’d be uproar!

dinosaursandtea · 09/05/2018 21:41

You feel hurt?! That’s your problem right there. This isn’t about your feelings, and if you’re that touchy then you probably shouldn’t be in a management position.

SarahSiddons · 09/05/2018 21:46

“The OP has given perfectly sound and acceptable reasons for her career trajectory so far, connected to her family responsibilities, yet lots of pp have fallen into the trap of seeing career progression from the male point of view AGAIN. This is why the glass ceiling exists.“

I agree with this actually.

But I also think the OP is wrong to be shocked / offended that her colleague is even going for the job. He has every right to and he’s probably not thinking about her at all and/or going for it without expectation he’ll get it but to show he’s ambitious. There’s nothing wrong with that either.

And by the way I’ve never seen the research that backs up the assertion that men apply for jobs when they have 3/10 of the criteria whereas women won’t go for jobs even though they meet 9/10 of the criteria. I hear it quoted a lot and I have searched but haven’t found the evidence. I’d genuinely be interested.

Good luck OP.

CanadianJohn · 09/05/2018 21:46

Young buck?? Try calling someone that in this country, and see how sympathetic the listeners are.

BoneyBackJefferson · 09/05/2018 21:48

YABU for taking it personally , and also for your views on how capable he is.

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