should I shave?

[TotHappy]

This has been niggling at me for a while.

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long.
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

We have eyebrows to prevent scalp sweat going into our eyes and stinging. Yet some women pluck those off.
Armpit hair is presumably to wick the sweat away from our bodies and prevent bacteria breeding and making sweat smell bad?

Thing is, people and their views change over time - I used to shave everything and wear full slap, I'm now barefaced and don't shave on principle. My husband knew me in both incarnations and not only respects but understands and encourages my personal growth (pun intended!)

You shouldn't do something that makes you feel like you're betraying yourself, and your husband should be able to deconstruct 'I find it sexy' in order to meet you on that.

I shave my legs, and armpits and keep my lady bird tidy. But as it's been pointed out before on a bikini thread I do like to look pretty and feminine. I also did all this when I met my husband. I'd like to say he still finds me attractive and I still find him attractive. If he grew a huge beard and starting wearing clothes I find horrible then I wouldn't really like it, the same as if I grew my body hair and started wearing fleeces and jogging bottoms. The point is we both make an effort for one another.

applauds @LanaKane*
I agree with everything you said Lana.
I too don't do all that "feminine" stuff but I'm still a woman even rocking my natural bush.
It makes me angry too. It's Stockholm Syndrome and the way women are being so judgemental about each other is really fucking depressing.

Question.

If women not shaving this

is socially unacceptable and unhygienic

Why is shaving this

socially unacceptable???

I don't get it??

If not having hair is bad for you, why aren't we all shaving our heads??

I mean....nits would be extinct in a near instant.

Sorry....
*If not having hair is good for you.

I might have been in the sun too long

Lady bird 😂 lady bits!

Ok, I get the anger at women judging other women negatively, I agree with this, and have done on many threads. I also agree your point you should not judge women who do wish to shave ot paint their nails. Nor should we assume it's due to societal pressure. Because that indicates a lack of intelligence or balls. That they are doing something they don't want to Becayse they feel they should or because they are too brain washed. As women we have a right to chose.

However, this thread is about the op and her husband. The bottom line is no matter how hairy she gets, and how angry folks get on here, he ain't ever going to find her hairy legs and pits attractive.

And she wants him to find her attractive. So she can turn into a yeti to prove a point to him that it's her body her choice, or she can do what billions have people have done since the beginning of time, and that's try to be attractive every now and again for their partner. Both men and women.

As individuals we have a right to do as we please and not criticise others for their choices. Whatever those choices are.

However that is not going to help the op and her rather turned off husband who she wants to want her. That's a different question altogether and it's about intimacy and making an effort to be attractive to your partner and not to go out of your way to appear in a manner that repulses them.

Thing is, people and their views change over time - I used to shave everything and wear full slap, I'm now barefaced and don't shave on principle. My husband knew me in both incarnations and not only respects but understands and encourages my personal growth

Well said and a very fucking good point.

We are supposed to grow and change as people.

We aren't supposed to be captured in time, like a butterfly in a case.

We grow old.

We change.

Our opinions become shaped by our ever longer life experiences.

Why are we expected to remian exactly the same in appearance as when we were the age we met our partners??

It's obviously not possible.

In 10 years ageing, pg, childbirth, bfing etc has changed me far beyond the woman I was when I met DP.

No amount of diet is going to change the botched c section scar (feminist issue!), the wider hips, the massive boobs that didn't exist before DS, the myriad other things.

Sure I cpuld spend thousands and risk my health to change these things, but why??

Why can't we accept that these things are changeable??

OP I also wonder if some of this is about a realisation....

I have had that realisation about what I do to look socially acceptable at work. Unfortunately I don't think I can take risks in a setting if earning money, but it has made me more conscious in my personal life. I generally have no idea what I look like out of work now.

“MillicentF learn to use google, a library or a bookshop, like other people do. If you don’t have the intelligence to educate yourself, don’t ask other people to do it for you“

I knew you were talking bullshit!

Op
Why not say to your dh, you watch dd whilst I bathe in peace and then and only then will I shave.
Then shave the bits you want.
I shave my legs
I do this because I wear skirts/dresses a lot.
I also go to the gym and wear short leggings.
My dp prefers it when I shave my legs bunnies that it is entirely up to me.
I used to leave my arm pit hair but I noticed I smelt more!
I don't shave my pits daily but do it if I'm wearing a vest in the gym or a sleeveless dress.
When I met dp I did shave my pubic hair.
Don't do it as much now mainly because I can't be bothered.
When I asked do he says it's entirely upto me but when pushed said he prefers 'a landing strip'.

I knew you were talking bullshit!

If that’s what you choose to take from my reply, so be it.

I didn't stop shaving be cause I felt shaving is wrong. I stopped,because I no longer wanted to do it, felt there were other things I'd rather do with my time. It became a feminist issue for me when my husband suggested that I'd stopped doing it because I was no longer bothered about him - implying I'd been doing it for him in the first place. And then he continues to bring it up even after I explained this to him.
We do change. And he's changed too. I can see past the paunch because his appearance isn't everything. I expect him to see the things I DO do to show I'm bothered and care about him, and not assume that my body reflects on him.

not to go out of your way to appear in a manner that repulses them.

But she's not "going out of her way"

She's just changed her opinion, like many people do over time, and doesn't want to jump through expensive, societal, hoops.

Why is deciding that some aspects of purely cosmetic, expensive, and time consuming stuff is not for you, actively trying to repulse their partner??

My partner (male btw, not that it matters), has enough fucking empathy and logical facilities to see that whether a woman has body hair or not, whether she had it previously or not, she has agency over her body, and that "not shaving" is not equal to "putting him off".

It's a personal choice.
It's not trying to repulse him, I'm pretty sure that would be not washing and stinking, which, funnily enough, for all those who compared op to the bloke who doesn't even fucking wash his bollocks, is deliberately being repulsive.

Can you not see how fucked up it is that a woman simply choosing not to shave is seen as being provactively repulsive???

I might have been in the sun too long

Yep, and if you'd grown your hair, it surely would have protected you from the effects

@Lana everything you're saying is absolutely correct, brilliantly put and I 100% agree.

All those women (and men) who genuinely believe female body hair is gross, unhygienic or any of the other derogatory words used on here thinks that because of societal conditioning. Men who think it's unattractive think that because of societal conditioning,and personally I'd never date anyone who subscribed to that view. If I was the OP, yes, I would damn well be staying hairy to prove a point, because the point just isn't about hair. It's about all the endless demands and expectations put on women that aren't put on men.

This is not comparable to getting dreadlocks or putting on weight or drastically changing your fashion sense. It's NATURAL. Every single woman has body hair - there's nothing you can do to stop it growing other than choosing to remove it. Getting dreadlocks, putting weight on or changing your fashion sense are done through choice or lack of choices to prevent them (medical conditions notwithstanding where weight is concerned).

Hair, on the other hand, just happens. To everyone. It's a body in its natural state. If you choose to remove it for YOU because that's how you like your body, go for it. But if you remove it because you feel it's your duty to your partner and think other women who don't are disgusting you really need to question why you think that, because it isn't true. It's bullshit beauty stereotypes that we should all be working to stamp out whether we shave or not.

“for 12 years he got used to me having smooth legs for 5-10 days a month, now it's only half a dozen times a year. But if he could handle all the hairy times then, why not now?”

Maybe because hair that has been growing unimpeded for two months gets longer than hair that’s been growing for a week or two. Not being arsey, just a genuine possibility.

I haven’t RTFT (sorry) but one thing that strikes me is that it’s a cliche that some women “let themselves go” after having a baby. It’s a horrible notion, but one that your husband might be on the lookout for.

The main thing though is that your relationship doesn’t sound happy right now. Did you resume sex? How horrid of him to decide for the both of you that it was off the table for the duration of your pregnancy.

I think the rest of the relationship needs repair. The hair thing is just a symptom. Personally, I wouldn’t be able to carry on in all my unshaven glory if I knew that my husband was turned off by it. So you have disconnected in some way.

OP you sound like me
I don't see the details of a person, I see how I feel about them.

So the fact that your DH isn't seeing in that way maybe has upset you as well?

I stopped,because I no longer wanted to do it, felt there were other things I'd rather do with my time. It became a feminist issue for me when my husband suggested that I'd stopped doing it because I was no longer bothered about him - implying I'd been doing it for him in the first place.

Abso fucking lutely.

It ties in to the "she was asking forit in a short skirt" attitude.

All stems from the same basic idea that women only choose what to wear/look like to attract the attention of men.

God forbid we should make choices based on our own fucking opinion.

No.

At all times we must center the thought that people are looking, judging, and rating us purely based on how socially acceptably attrective we appear to men.

Cos that's how we rate ourselves.

How sexually appealing we appear to a bunch of narrow minded, misogynistic arseholes...

Yeah I'm checking out of that shit.

Crispbutty Mon 07-May-18 15:22:05

"Armpits take less than twenty seconds to shave. hairy armpits really do look gross on a female."

Mysogynist.

Edmund, you said “open a history book” I said “which one?” because I don’t actually know which history book you meant. You refused to say, in far more words than to name and author of the book concerned. So yes, I call bullshit. And so will everyone else on this thread.

Can the person who said that all Ancient Egyptians removed all their body hair please provide a link to the evidence and explain why it’s relevant to modern Western Civilization?

stevie yeah...

If only I had a curtain of swishy blonde hair to protect me fromthe sun.....

maybe I would have naice lady opinions instead of being so angry and shouty.

OP, women are expected to be smooth skinned and shaved every where, and we conform. But why? Where is this rule written? I don’t shave that often, but of course I take care of myself and my appearance.

We are conditioned to believe that having no pubic hair is very attractive and feminine. From a young age, this is drummed into womens heads. And so this bullshit belief is perpetuated.

It’s up to you. Do what you want. Maybe also ask your husband to shave all over, all the time. See how he likes that!

Yes, I expect so WomaninGreen
He's not a good communicator. He will insist that everything's fine until he boils up and decides it's awful. So having never complained about my hairy periods in the 12 years I sometimes shaved, I was bemused to be suddenly told that my hairy legs were a symptom of me not caring about him. Ditto the pregnancy sex: He never articulated then or later why he wasn't up for it. And obviously I couldn't insist but it is humiliating to suddenly be dropped, sexually. Not helped by the fact that societal norms would have us believe it's the women who don't want sex any more when they're pregnant / have babies, whereas men are always gagging for it. So in my hormonal mess I was left thinking what the fuck is actually wrong with me that by conceiving a child I have completely turned off my husband?
Grim times. We had relationship counselling about 6 months ago but he declined to talk about our sex life as part of it.