should I shave?

[TotHappy]

This has been niggling at me for a while.

I'm 31. Been with dh nearly 14 years. My shaving routine used to be:
Underarms - most days, might get a bit stubbly if I left it for a few. Probably take care to shave them before baring them to swim/sunbathe.
Legs - only really bothered for a night out, so maybe shaved once a month. More in summer, but def not every day - maybe for an 'event' or a beach day. An event might include a sexy night in, but they certainly weren't smooth at all times and I didn't care.
Vag - never. Or maybe once or twice as an experiment, never liked it, hate the feeling, find it uncomfortable plus too much faff.

Then when I got pregnant (daughter is nearly 2 now), stopped shaving pretty much everything. Initially, morning sickness and generally not leaving house, later size of bump. Sexy times were non existent anyway as dh stopped sexual activity once I was pregnant - which I was very upset about.
Shaving has never resumed post partum - I will still occasionally do it for a night out/special event but not always, and of course nights out are a lot rarer now with DD. My solitary baths when I could quickly do my underarms are long gone, DD baths with me so no razors in the bath, and when I do get the odd solitary bath I cba with how long it would take as underarms now a good inch long.
I just don't care any more, even as much as I used to, about what people think. If I go swimming or to the beach, I dont feel the need to de-hair first. I think this is a lot to do with giving birth in front of five strangers - personal things somehow seem a lot less personal!

My issue is dh has brought up me not shaving a few times and I feel very uncomfortable about him doing that. After an argument once he said, as part of a rang about how I dont care, 'you dont even shave your legs anymore', quickly followed up by 'not that that's important, but it just shows that you dont care', to which I was as I was never in the permanently-hairless-legs crew, ever, and in any case the reason I had reduced the number of leg shaves was because I had reduced the numbers of nights out, end of!

The other day, he was giving me a foot massage and commented 'whoa, how hairy are your legs?!' I think I responded with a and a 'quite hairy', and he followed up with 'what about your armpits? Have you shaved those lately?' Or similar.

He has also said several times in the past that he prefers a shaven vag. I've said I dont like the feel of it so dont plan to dp that regularly, but have on the very odd occasion got a bikini wax/Californian wax. Last time he didn't even notice as he wasn't up for sex for the whole 6 weeks it was evident, so that was a waste!

I feel really quite miffed that he thinks I should shave because he prefers it. I suppose I have two questions:
A) AIBU to manage my body hair in any way I want without reference to him and
B) what do most people here do? I know most of my friends do shave with some regularity. I know my mum never did. So possibly a generational thing, but as I grew up with my mum as a role model, I feel totally comfortable either way. I feel very uncomfortable with the comments I've sometimes seen on social media about not shaving being 'dirty' or 'unhygienic'.

Thoughts??

Ok.... Let me try again. The sex switch-off predated the shaving switch -off.

My husband does have a beard although I would prefer (and have said) clean shaven.

I am lazy. I dont like work. I will do work if there's a good reason for it. I didn't think there was a good reason to shave if I didn't fancy it.

Leg shaving harms me not (apart from the odd cut). I've found my pits much less sweaty and itchy since the shaving stopped. Vag shaving has always made me very itchy, sweaty and frictiony down there, and I'm not spinning £15 on a way every month. It's for the occasional treat for him.

I dont think this is the be all and end all for him either. If it were why would he have married me in the first place? He knew my lazy ways. But i did think that his pointedly noting how hairy my legs were as if in reproof was pretty sexist. Not as sexist as some of the comments on here though.

Juells, Why not take that up with the posters who said those things? I didn't, I've made no comments about any other women's body hair or body for that matter. Only my own.

If posters didn't launch in with the paedophilia-trope then perhaps the dirty/smelly comments wouldn't be made either. Equally moronic. Either way, take it up with those posters directly.

OP... why not have a conversation with your husband about this? Not shouting or being defensive, just talking through the points that you've made here.

The thing is, you're within your rights to be lazy if you want to. He's within his rights to not appreciate that. You can dislike his beard; he can refuse to shave it off. In an ideal world, you'd do things for each other but if you're at an impasse then better that both of you state your positions so that there is no further argument about it and no further comments needed

It's not the relationship that I would want, to be honest. Both of you seem to take some silent glee from thwarting what the other would like. Each to their own though.

£15 on a wax

Yeah, we could discuss it again.the thing is, I thought we had. I explained not shaving is no reflection of my lack of interest in him, he said he'd prefer it, I said I prefer it when you shave too, he said ok I will. He doesn't. And I dont mind that, unless he starts getting snippy about me not shaving. Because we can (and occasionally do) both make an effort, but I'm not his property to be groomed to his liking on demand.

@GardenGeek my last bikini wax was £25, two months ago. £100!!!
No wonder my fellow millennials can't afford house deposits

I'm another who is 'lucky' enough to have a husband who finds me sexy and attractive whether I shave or not. When I shave pits/legs its because I feel like it but I rarely shave vag as it's mega uncomfortable and itchy for me.

A few years ago he grew his hair long and looked definitely less attractive, but since our relationship is about far more than physical attractiveness and it was his hair, I didn't complain about it. I'd never expect him to ask me to change my look for him. To me, love is accepting the other person as they are and wishing to make them happy. Seeing it as their job to make you happy is not what love is about imho. I'm finding it quite sad how many people feel this is the contract.

OP, I think it is a reasonable wish to have a partner who accepts you as you come. Im sorry this is how it is for now, but I think there's been some balanced advice about accepting him how he comes as well. It's difficult given that he refused to talk about the sex stuff, as this is surely mixed up in those issues and I don't see how he can expect things to improve without talking about how you both feel and agreeing a way forward.

Yes a lot of posters seem to have missed that he went off sex ages ago and op even did her foof at one point.

Still waiting for someone to tell me why it's gross for women to have hairy bodies but not men.

Also, eye rolled so hard at the butt wiping and teeth cleaning examples. No connection whatsoever.

My husband does have a beard although I would prefer (and have said) clean shaven.

In that case, I think YANBU. It cuts both ways. To be honest, once you get to a certain point of a relationship the beauty of it is you can both give up on things as trivial as grooming and be more comfortable.

We're not 'the borg', WomaninGreen. Women may think their own body hair is gross and do something about it. They may or may not have a preference for men to be hairless.

As long as women do not impose their own preferences on others then what's the problem? I truly do not understand why somebody who prefers not to remove their body hair would be offended by somebody else saying that body hair is gross? Why care what other people think?

I personally wonder why so many women are so invested in what other women do with their body hair - taking any comment different in nature as some sort of slight - when we regularly have threads like 'What do you judge?' started by goady fuckers, whose intent it is to insult as many people as they can.

So many posters getting so much enjoyment from shit threads like that but heaven help a woman who wants to remove their own body hair; it's like all the hounds of hell are unleashed.

Why not just leave people to do as they wish with their body hair? Focus on something that actually matters? That you have the slightest changes of influencing perhaps?

*chances not changes

I don’t shave at all anymore, I spent my teens with constantly irritated skin from shaving regularly because boyfriends and peers told me body hair on women is dirty, gross, unhygienic etc etc. It actually makes me angry now that I went along with it for so long, I feel liberated now I don’t. DP doesn’t care what I do, so since having dd I’ve made the decision not to shave, I don’t want to normalise the misogyny of body hair removal that I experienced for my daughter, I don’t ever want her to feel disgusted about her natural body and waste her time and money trying to adhere to a beauty standard set by the porn industry. Women are of course free to do whatever they want with their body hair, but choices are not made in a vacuum and personally I don’t want to support the double standards women face in terms of grooming in our society, and I don’t believe it truly is a choice, more an obligation or internalised self hatred.

OP, I’m sorry your DH is being like this, it’s beyond shitty of him to try and impose his ideal of grooming on you, especially since it isn’t a huge change given you didn’t shave regularly before. Especially given that he isn’t willing to put minimal effort into keeping his facial hair to your liking. Has he been watching porn as a substitute for intimacy and his tastes have changed as a result? It seems odd he has gone from not being bothered to it becoming something he feels the need to guilt you about.

Thanks, smellyjo. That's how I see it. Sex is about so much more than the way you look, in my opinion, and a relationship is built on shared experiences, goals and values. WomaninGreen said it upthread too - I see the whole person.

But I'm hoping it was just thoughtlessness from him and some frank conversations with my feminist friends in front of him might make him think.

Lying, you're confusing me with someone else I think

I shave as well and said so upthread

There's been some posters who were very specific about body hair being gross on a woman but don't say anything about men and I'm asking why they think it's gross on one and not the other, and why one poster thinks it's comparable to not wiping your arse or brushing your teeth.

May I ask all the non shavers, what's your stance on facial hair on women? If you don't shave legs, arm pits etc would you sort out upper lip or chin hair if it was dark and noticeable? I'm not being goady, I'm just interested in your feelings in it.

Op you can talk to him all you want with your "feminist friends"like the vast majority of people though, he still won't find your hairy legs and pits attractive. You cannot dictate what people do and do not find attractive. I'm sure if he got the blokes round to talk about the right for men to have a beard you wouldn't suddenly find his beard more attractive.

Neither of you will compromise to be physically attractive to the other. And that's fine. You can both take your stance. His face his hair.your pits your hair.

You've already been in counselling. Your sex life isn't working. Neither of you wishes to do anything to make youtself attractive to the other. In fact you will both go out your way to maintain a look you know the other doesn't like.

Overall I'd say your problems run much deeper than who shaves what. You can both be as stubborn as you like. But it won't improve your marriage. Marriages are supposed to be about many things. One of them is not petty stand offs to physically turn each other off as much as you can.

My genuine suggestion is to focus on the wider issues of your marriage.

And thanks, silkpyjamas. I have no idea of his porn habits, but I have just had a conversation with him about his comment re my legs. I didn't say everything I have here, but I did say again that it's purely not high on my list of priorities and so not doing it is no reflection of my feelings towards him. I said I know his preferences and so sometimes take them into account, just like I sometimes cook his favourite dinner but not every night. Also mentioned the beard - he's just shaved it! We'll see who can keep this up.
when I said I don't mind waxing my vag sometimes but I'm not wasting the money every month he said in shock 'you wax it?!' and when I told him last month, you didn't notice, he looked so crestfallen!

I too don't want my daughter growing up thinking she has to do this. But as I said in my op, my mum didn't. I think it's peer pressure more than upbringing.

@BusterGonad, it's ever been a live issue for me so I cant be sure. I might... But then I didn't used to like people seeing my hairy pits before I had my daughter and now I don't care. So maybe not. My priorities have shifted so much.

You've said you don't do it cos you can't be chewed basically but if you know your partner dislikes something that takes seconds to change and isn't even a permanent change why wouldn't you?! Vagina isn't even a big deal but arms and legs is just sheer laziness and looks horrible.

WomaninGreen, I've misunderstood your post, sorry. My post was only partially to you, I then went off at a tangent. My annoyance on this subject at women being told what to do - by other women - got the better of me. Apologies.

Totally up to you.
I only shave when going to the pool or beach really.

On the topic of shaving the vag area, I heard a very interesting programme on radio 4 about shaving intimate areas and how it's really quite bad for your health. It's to do with the balance of bacteria, good and bad, and the micro abrasions that occur during any hair removal process.

If you don't shave legs, arm pits etc would you sort out upper lip or chin hair if it was dark and noticeable?

I have PCOS.
I have a slight, dark tache.
Thanks to heritage my body hair is dark.
I don't remove it.

I will admit I worried about it, took me ages to reconcile my hard feminist principles with stressing about what is really, a tiny amount of hair.
But I don't stress anymore.

Love me for who I am.