To “make” my kids be vegan?

[Sarcy]

About 3 years ago I decided to become vegan, my two youngest are being brought up vegan. Whilst my 4 older kids made the decision for themselves. One of them decided about a year ago that he didn’t want to be vegan anymore, at friend’s houses or when he’s out with friends he’ll eat meat but at home I don’t let him. I’ve had a lot of people tell me I’m wrong for “forcing” my kids into this or not letting them backout easily. This isn’t the case but I made sure DS had truly thought about it before deciding not to be vegan. I’m just trying to understand what makes people think it’s wrong to raise children on a vegan diet, surly giving your children meat is much worse

DialsMavis
I eat meat but not from factory farms however most cereals are grown on intensive farms

I'm a vegetarian (have been for nearly 20 years), my husband isn't. Most of the time DH has vegetarian food at home rather than cooking 2meals and will have meat sometimes or at restaurants.
We've decided to give our Ds meat and he can make up his own mind when he is older. My parents respected my decision when I was 9 and wanted to be a vegetarian thinking it was a phase! and that is what we will do with my son. Yes he could grow up vegetarian and decide not to eat meat, but this way works for us.

Your beliefs are yours, your DC are entitled to their own beliefs. I understand that you might not be comfortable preparing some foods but if they have made their decision I don't think it's right to stop them.

I find that I love the food I eat at home, so feel no need to add meat and dairy, the times I would be tempted to eat animal products would be out of the house which would not be ethically produced.
My friends buy milk from the calf at foot dairy which is as ethical as it can be but I simply can't afford it.and I have gone without for a few months now and don't fancy it anymore anyway. I would eat eggs if I had my own chickens but in a rented terraced house it's not practical. Obviously thay would not make me vegan but I would be happy with my choice.

My FIL died of cancer a few weeks ago and during his illness I did an awful lot of reading about using diet to stay healthy and I found some of the links between fighting cancer and veganism compelling but at that point I would have jumped on anything tbh!

I certainly look and feel better than I have done in years but if I start to feel like shit I'll think again, happy for the moment.

I don't think for one minute a vegan diet is unhealthy (as long as it's not all chips etc of course) there are many cultures around the world that don't consume dairy and many that don't consume meat.

It's a ridiculous statement to make. A meat eater can have a healthy diet or an unhealthy one also?! Processed meat for example is much worse for you than any vegan good is and that's without going in to animal welfare and your carbon footprint etc etc

So much absolute bullshit on this thread from people saying veganism is unhealthy when every doctor in the land is advising their patients to move towards a much more plant based diet. There isn't a nutrient in the world that is exclusively available from animal products and which can't be sourced from plant-based food.

Eat whatever the hell you like, but don't try and make yourself feel better about your choices by pretending veganism is unhealthy when the opposite is true. This is a lie people tell themselves because they want to justify the fact that animals suffer as a result of their diet.

meetoo I haven't read the whole thread so I apologize if someone has already suggested this but has your daughter tried hazelnut or other nut milks? They're much nicer than soya.

And further bullshit - this claim that OP is forcing her beliefs onto her kids AS IF EVERY OTHER PARENT ISN'T DOING THIS. Every single parent is teaching their kids according to their own beliefs and morals. Every time you decide whether to let your kids dye their hair or get their ears pierced or go on a date or watch an 18 film etc etc etc you're imposing your beliefs on your kids. If you only think it's an issue when it comes to veganism you're just a massive hypocrite.

You are really asking for trouble with this sort of thread.

Whether you're personal opinion is that a vegan diet is restrictive, im bringing up my child vegan, she has been to various check ups at the drs since she's been born and they have never expressed any issue with her health. She is perfectly on track with her height/weight for her age and is developing well.

Yes, it IS harder to get all the necessary nutrients from a vegan diet, but I don't think we're all walking around oblivious, all the vegan parents I know are well prepared and educate themselves to provide for their children nutritionally - healthy fats like hummus, avocado, omega 3s from a tablespoon of flax seeds every day in porridge or smoothies. Processed meats are now classed as type one carcinogens, can you all say you don't feed your children bacon or ham?

I would allow your child to do as he wished outside the house - but I would discuss with him why you've chosen to be vegan and why you think it's the right choice for the family, but ultimately it's his decision. And to everyone saying what would happen if the roles are reversed - I went vegetarian at 11, I could tell you countless tales of other parents saying 'i can't believe you let her!' and that they wouldn't have done it for their kids.

Most vegan diets are perfectly healthy and I have no issue at all with parents having a vegan only house for their family and visitors. I’m happy to eat only vegetarian or vegan at friends homes who are one or other.
However, I think children should be allowed to choose animal products out of the home if they want to. Right from school age I believe they can understand and so should decide themselves what to eat at school or at friends houses / parties etc.
I think society would benefit if people weren’t so black and white about this. Why shouldn’t some of us eat meat sometimes, vegetarian sometimes and even vegan options at times? Particularly if your ethical considerations are around climate/farming/resources rather than the basic principle of consuming or harming a living thing.

I think it's great OP!
Meat eaters don't raise their children vegetarian or vegan so why should you give your children meat and animal products at home?!

If he wants to try it outside of the home then so be it but if you're cooking it's vegan.

It's not a case of meat or no meat. If you want a child to follow a vegan diet they have to be fairly good at trying new things - and particularly the green leafy veg, pulses and so on that many small children aren't keen on. You can't just replace chicken nuggets with Fry's nuggets.

I found this a very useful resource: www.firststepsnutrition.org/pdfs/Eating_well_for_veg_infants_for_web.pdf

We're vegan at home and mostly follow a plant based whole food diet. It means cooking from scratch, no added salt or sugar, meal planning. DD also drinks the fortified Alpro Growing Up milk (even if I had the time to make my own plant milk I'd still rather she had the fortified one). However she is veggie outside the house because there is no nursery or infant school which will offer the same range of food she gets at home.

"Proper" vegans think that's a total cop-out, but it's a practical approach in the interests of her getting a balanced diet both at home and outside the home.

I'd add though that despite DD being veggie rather than vegan, I get asked to justify feeding her a vegan diet at home much more than any of my friends who feed their own children the Standard Western Diet (aka Standard American Diet) which is extremely high in sugar, fat and salt, without being correspondingly high in nutrients. It does seem like a different standard is applied to those who are perceived as deviating from social norms.

Have you ever heard of a person suffering from a protein deficiency, like ever?

It's called kwashiorkor and is mostly found in a range of African countries
"...Malnutrition continues to be a major public health problem throughout the developing world, particularly in southern Asia and sub-Saharan Africa.1,2,3,4,5 Diets in populations there are frequently deficient in macronutrients (protein, carbohydrates and fat, leading to protein–energy malnutrition), micronutrients (electrolytes, minerals and vitamins, leading to specific micronutrient deficiencies) or both"
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180662/

NRTFT but my DM is a vegan and we always ate meat growing up. My Dsis is a vegetarian and will buy/cook meat for her DP who is a meat eater.

I think your kids should be able to eat what they want

I agree with vegetarianism and veganism and prefer it to people eating animals and particularly young animals.

I don't really agree with starting a vegan diet (vegetarianism is fine) for a child under the age of 5 because the require vitamin B12, iron and first degree protein (i.e. protein containing 9 amino acids) for normal brain development and growth. Children under the age of 5 should still be on full-fat cow's/goat's milk.

The only exception would be if you were one of those odd people who feeds their child breastmilk until they are 4 or 5 because then they would get animal protein from that! I think that under 5s need to be vegetarian or eat meat.

After they are five it's probably fine for them to be vegan.

I think it's fine for you to only serve vegetarian food at home and vegan food to your older children. They can then decide for themselves how they eat away from home and when they leave home.

"Have you ever heard of a person suffering from a protein deficiency, like ever?"

Yes, frequently. Many, many patients who come into Intensive Care are malnourished and have had poor nutrition, which is evidenced by low serum Albumin (blood protein) levels. Low Albumin levels are a strong prognostic indicator (i.e. The lower the albumin, the worse the outcome for the patient).

Can you compromise OP? Seems a bit draconian...

Question for vegan parents who raise their children as vegan - cooking meals at home I get: but if you're out and about and every other kid is allowed an ice cream as a treat, how do your kids react when they're not allowed one because they're not allowed dairy?

Or at a birthday party if they're not allowed any of the sandwiches (butter) or birthday cake (butter, eggs). Is it not restrictive for your kids? Vegetarian is easy to accommodate, but I would have thought forbidding any eggs or dairy would exclude then from enjoying lots of very normal childhood things?

Sorry @Sarcy I’m going to ask my question again because it got lost amongst the bickering but it’s just a curiosity question.

What would you do if at a restaurant with him, just the family, he wanted to order a non vegan dish? You are paying so does it still come under that umbrella? Or is he just more likely to eat vegan as he’s with you?

dd is up shit creek without a paddle then if the only option to get calcium is from milk and eggs or nuts.

perhaps I should give them her anyway? oh no wait, I won't because she would die, of anaphylaxis, in some cases, or vomit the whole lot up in others, thus getting no nutrients and missing out on schooling for 48 hours.

thank fuck the internet is around so I can do some research into providing all the nutrients she needs, from seeds, vegetables, supplements, etc.

there are dairy free/gluten free icecreams, sorbets, ice lollies, sweeties from aldi, egg free cakes, vitalite spread, or pure spread, dairy free chocolate, vegan pizzas, dairy free cheese of various types, linda mcartney sausages, plenty of normal childhood things there for them to go at, and not having too many of those things is not harming them at all.

@bananafish81 DD is veggie outside the home rather than vegan, but I don't let her have ice cream from the van because my (omnivore) parents (who raised their own meat so it's not like they're squeamish or raised me to be!) gave me the absolute Rigid Fear about unclean ice cream dispensers in ice cream vans. So she has a lolly instead.

At home I have just deviated from our usual unprocessed foods because it's fecking hot and I wanted to try the new Swedish Glace vegan chocolate covered ice cream cones. Can recommend.

DD is really good about sweets in shops and at parties and will ask if something has gelatine in before asking if she can have it. It's just normal for her. We don't buy sweets with gelatine or milk in just like we don't buy cat food (she would quite like me to buy cat food as she spends a lot of time pretending to be a cat. Armchair psychologists take note of her clear innate longing for meat products communicated solely through miaows.)

At parties real vegans speak to the party host and then bring replicas in tupperware so their child can have a near identical looking plate of food. By 5 or so a lot of children of vegans are firmly on board with veganism anyway as a philosophy and so don't feel deprived.

@MiddleClassProblem this hasn’t happened before since he always eats vegan with me but honestly if he was to want a non vegan meal I don’t think I would let him seeing as I would be paying for it. I think him wanting to not be vegan wasn’t that he wanted to eat non vegan food everyday just on the occasion, like if he was in McDonald’s with his friends

YANBU to feed your kids whatever reasonably healthy diet you choose. YANBU to talk to your children about decisions they make and try and guide them through them. You would be unreasonable to insist they stick to a vegan diet when eating elsewhere, but you aren't doing that. Your friends (or at least the people criticising you) sound bonkers.

Why do people get so angry about vegans and veggys. Is it because we all know that what we are doing to animals is evil. We are too selfish to stop what we are doing. And vegans remind us how selfish we are?

Oswin probably because we care about their children's health. Why do vegans get so angry about non-vegans, to the extent they throw flour on people, storm restaurants and stage protests, and announce to anyone and everyone they meet within 5 seconds that they are vegan? Is it the lack of nutrition (my theory) causing vegans to be angry and unhinged militants?

Ugh, it went through before I finished. Added on the the end of the last message I was going to say; because for all the thing about them being all natural and healthy and happy, they seem to be a very very angry lot. Not at peace with themselves (hence the aggression and militancy).