What would you do in this situation?

[Potentialheretic]

I am atheist.
DH is a non practising Catholic, who would refer to himself as agnostic.
I am pregnant with our first child.

We had discussed getting the baby christened, and I said that I would prefer not to. If the baby decided at a later date to follow a faith, I will support them in that, but I do not agree with infant baptism. I feel that a child should be given knowledge about all religions, and be allowed to make its own choice. However I did add the disclaimer that if DH felt very strongly about the issue, then I would consider it, but it would not be my preference, and would have no impact on any further parenting decisions, such as schooling.
DH at the time agreed with this.

Today we visited PILs and a comment was made about planning a christening. There was an awkward silence and DH said "well we'll have to see about that" and changed the subject.

We've been talking about it, and we both feel that we've maybe underestimated the importance his family places on the baby being a part of their faith - none of them are particularly devout except MIL. DH now feels torn, and I too am reluctant to create a rift over this, I love PILs.

I can see a situation emerging where a categorical "no christening" will result in a lot of upset, with the blame being put on me rather than DH. I'll be the one who has influenced DH, etc etc.

So I have told DH that I am leaving the decision entirely to him, on the understanding that although it's against my wishes, I will defer to his decision as he is the parent who does come from a faith. But I've also said that as he will be acting according to his conscience, so I'll act according to mine. So I won't stand up in church and tell lies about how I'm going to ensure that the baby is brought up in the faith, for example.

DH doesn't know what to do and is having a think about it. If the baby is christened, it's essentially going to be to keep family happy, and he doesn't like that idea, but on the other hand, he doesn't want to fall out with his family and if I'm honest, I think the cultural Catholic thing goes deeper than he realised.

I have also told him that as I'm leaving the decision solely to him, that extends to any particular christening event. I will not be planning or catering for it - if he decides this is something he wants to do, then he will be doing the work for it. I have no intention of planning a family event only weeks after having a baby.

Aibu? Am I being fair?

I think he would be pathetic to do this to "keep family happy" tbh. Its your kid.

Yanbu, its between you and your DH. But if he is going to say no to his family, then he should just say no upfront instead of stringing them along.

I wouldn't baptise a baby just to keep your in laws happy to be honest. It is a bit of a pain though. DH and I are were both brought up Catholic but we're both agnostic/atheist at this stage, but where is live most schools won't take in a child who isn't baptised. So that leaves a whole other dilemma.

The Catholic church probably won't baptised a baby if the mother refuses to be involved in the ceremony.

I don't necessarily have too much truck with the 'don't do these religious things when it's too early for them to understand' - the way I see it, nothing irrevocable is being done and your child can still choose to be religious or not, or Buddhist or Muslim or whatever when they're older after a ceremony done when they're tiny. Although perhaps you are concerned the family will put pressure on for your family to be more involved with Catholicism?

Perhaps rather than seeing as 'Oh heck, we'll have to do this thing to appease his family' you could see it as a gesture towards DH's family heritage that will make them happy and needn't have further impact on you? But obviously there may be other issues about the family that make it more significant.

Yes, keeping family happy is basically what it boils down to, though I think there is an element of DH feeling reluctant to break the status quo of the religion he's been raised in. I think he didn't realise himself how ingrained the expectations are

I will be disappointed in him if he decides to christen the baby, as it won't be for the right reasons, and he will know that himself. But I haven't told him that, because I want it to be absolutely clear that this is totally his decision, and I won't have any blame falling back on me. I've stated my case and the rest is down to his conscience

He'll defer it to his mother and she'll organise the event.

I would be happy to be involved in the ceremony, up until the point where I have to tell lies about my intentions. Church may not be my sacred space, but it is someone else's, and I would prefer to respect that by not making promises I have no intention of keeping.

Personally think you're gonna have to bite the bullet and refuse - otherwise it'll be church this, mass that, go to catholic school, .... you need to make your decision known, you're leaving it up to them when they grow up and that's final
Imo christening babies is all about indoctrination and control - the rest is bullocks ... what decent 'god' (pick whichever one you prefer) would suggest a baby goes to hell if not christened? It's control and it's bollocks... stick with your plans, yo don't want this

Good for you to stand by what you believe but to also acknowledge the father's wishes too.

If it does go ahead PLEASE do not back down about getting involved with the organisation.... but how will you feel if his Mum does do it?

I understand that Potential and respect you for not just lying for the sake of a nice day (as many do). I recently had my daughters baptised and having both parents pledge to raise their child in the faith is a very important part of the ceremony. I'm not sure you'll have a priest willing to do the baptism without your involvement.

I think YABU to leave it up him. It’s your child too.

Did you get married in church? If so, was that to appease his parents?

I absolutely wouldn’t have any child of mine christened or part of something I didn’t agree with/believe in. I couldn’t have that on my conscience.

You have every right to bring your child up in a way you believe is right. Yes, you discuss it between you, but he’s not a practising catholic and it’s a dangerous precedent to set that what your PILs want for your child is more important than what you, the parents want.

"he doesn't want to fall out with his family "

He wouldn't be-they would be falling out with him about a decision that you both have made about your child.

He shouldn't even have to think about it-MIL had her say about her own kids.

She doesn't get to pass that down to yours-no, really, she doesn't!

DH and I are ttc and we will likely have exactly the same issue. We have already discussed baptism, and in theory we agree that it’s best to let a child wait until they are old enough to make an informed decision. My DS (previous relationship) wasn’t baptised and is still deciding for himself.

There will likely be an uproar from PIL though, if we are lucky enough to have another child. MIL firmly believes that unbaptised babies go to hell, and made a fuss about her other grandchildren being baptised asap. Despite the fact that none of them go to church, and the christenings were all about the drinking session afterwards rather than “god.”

I will also want any future children to have my surname too - now that will be a bunfight

All my four were christened,my part as mum was central to it ,holding candles and repeating promises as were the god parents...we also had to be regularly attending mass to have it done ,not sure the father would of been to happy without my involvement..so I would say without you on board it's not going to happen anyway

When you married, didn't you have to 'promise' that your children would be brought up Catholic?

Maybe I'm just old and that's not done anymore?

Not sure what it is like for the different strands of Christian faith but my parents were from different religions and on one side it was traditionally passed from the mother, i.e. Judaism, whereas part of father's family were up in arms that we weren't raised in his faith. Parents solved the issue by telling everyone as politely as possible to feck off and both effectively were atheists. Wider family really should not dictate religion, especially if that doesn’t stop with baptism but then leads to First Communion and the entire circus. Where would you draw the line to appease their ‘culture’? Anyway, I am looking forward to a nice pork roast dinner later…

eh i never understand what the big deal is, i was christened but i am not religious now as have grown up with my own beliefs but its not like being christened damaged me or has created issues with me being whatever religion i want to be, i don't see the problem with just christening him for the PIL sake and then when the child grows up he/she can decide on whatever belief they wish to follow.

That being said i also don't get why its so important for people to do it because either way a child should make there own informed decision about religion.

The fact he is agnostic may mean it's more ingrained in him also than he realises. He does believe in god and uou need to remember that and accept it. Please don't pressurise him into not doing it to appease you. As you don't believe it does you no harm. As he does believe in god, it will impact more on him.

If he decides to go ahead, can you reallly not support him and accept his decision?

His mum will not physically be able to do it, as she is unwell (another reason I would hate to fall out with inlaws, plus I really like MIL) I will absolutely not back down on the organisation and DH will have no choice but to do it himself. DH isn't the type of man who would leave something like that solely to me/the nearest woman anyway, we have a very equal marriage and there is no "wife work". That's also partly why I'm leaving this decision entirely to him, I won't agree with it but it's his baby too and I think it's important that whatever decision he makes is one that he is wiling to stand by 100%. I know a lot of men would happily hide behind their wives on difficult issues like this, but I'm nobody's scapegoat, nor am I anyone's spiritual gatekeeper.

Catholic school won't be an issue as there are none nearby, dh doesn't go to church, and I have pointed out that as far as I'm concerned, I will provide my child with knowledge/access to other religions as I see fit. I did also point out that there may be an element of delaying the inevitable, as if the child decides not to go through with communion /confirmation, then that is where I really will put my foot down, I will ensure that my child's beliefs and feelings and religious decisions are put before anyone else's expectations.

I don't believe in anything, but chose to have both my children christened. I felt that I'd be imposing my own opinion on them if I did otherwise. I realise other people feel differently, but I was happy to be able to make up my own mind about religion, I just came to a point at age 16 or so where it suddenly occurred to me that "this is all hogwash, I don't believe a word of it". Would it have been my own choice if my parents were atheists? I don't know. Also it isn't just a religious thing, it's cultural as well.

It's up to you what you do re your children and religion, I don't think there's any right or wrong approach.

Apologies for such a waffly post!

Have a non-demoninational naming cerimony. We have has 2 of these in our family and they are lovely no religion, just about the child, family and friends and obviously at a venue of your choice.

There's not much to say because I think you're being perfectly fair and taking a perfectly reasonable approach. Nothing I would change!

I dunno. If my kids' grandparents genuinely believed their grandchild would go to hell if it wasn't christened, and that caused them distress I would probably just do it. As far as I'm concerned it doen't mean anything anyway.

I would be extremely clear that the kid was not going to be brought up in the faith, however.

(disclaimer: I have no idea if Catholics believe unchristened children go to hell or not)

I absolutely will respect his decision. I have told him that. It may not be my preference, but I would not hold it against him and I can understand why he would choose it. We won't fight over this, it's just very very tricky and I'm keen to make this as easy and mutually respectful as possible. I don't want to ride roughshod over his beliefs any more than he does mine (or lack of)

We've been doing a lot of talking, but I wanted outside opinions to ensure that I am being fair, while not being a doormat or going against my own conscience

We had a nonreligious wedding. There were one or two comments from family, nothing offensive or angry, but we knew that PIL would have preferred a Catholic wedding and I think MIL did speak to her priest about it. There was no row or issue though, and I wasn't offended or anything like that.

I think a christening may be different though.