What would you do in this situation?

[Potentialheretic]

I am atheist.
DH is a non practising Catholic, who would refer to himself as agnostic.
I am pregnant with our first child.

We had discussed getting the baby christened, and I said that I would prefer not to. If the baby decided at a later date to follow a faith, I will support them in that, but I do not agree with infant baptism. I feel that a child should be given knowledge about all religions, and be allowed to make its own choice. However I did add the disclaimer that if DH felt very strongly about the issue, then I would consider it, but it would not be my preference, and would have no impact on any further parenting decisions, such as schooling.
DH at the time agreed with this.

Today we visited PILs and a comment was made about planning a christening. There was an awkward silence and DH said "well we'll have to see about that" and changed the subject.

We've been talking about it, and we both feel that we've maybe underestimated the importance his family places on the baby being a part of their faith - none of them are particularly devout except MIL. DH now feels torn, and I too am reluctant to create a rift over this, I love PILs.

I can see a situation emerging where a categorical "no christening" will result in a lot of upset, with the blame being put on me rather than DH. I'll be the one who has influenced DH, etc etc.

So I have told DH that I am leaving the decision entirely to him, on the understanding that although it's against my wishes, I will defer to his decision as he is the parent who does come from a faith. But I've also said that as he will be acting according to his conscience, so I'll act according to mine. So I won't stand up in church and tell lies about how I'm going to ensure that the baby is brought up in the faith, for example.

DH doesn't know what to do and is having a think about it. If the baby is christened, it's essentially going to be to keep family happy, and he doesn't like that idea, but on the other hand, he doesn't want to fall out with his family and if I'm honest, I think the cultural Catholic thing goes deeper than he realised.

I have also told him that as I'm leaving the decision solely to him, that extends to any particular christening event. I will not be planning or catering for it - if he decides this is something he wants to do, then he will be doing the work for it. I have no intention of planning a family event only weeks after having a baby.

Aibu? Am I being fair?

Don't have to be christened at birth, can be next year.
I know someone who did it at 30 so child could go to church school. Child now adult, no religion at all.
Another Christian friend married a Muslim. Wanted children to grow up in a faith. Other parent not bothered so they were baptised, grown up now, no religion.
Let him think about it.

I'm not sure op, you clearly feel very strongly indeed about religion, I strongly suspect that's very hard for your husband

You're whole "I won't lie, I won't help" is of course making it as hard as possible for him. That's clearly your intent.

Has there been an issue with religion in your past to give you this strength of feeling?

I had dc christened partly because they need to be christened if they want to get married in church. I didn't want to take away that easy option, rather than them having to be christened as an adult.

In exactly your position with my DCs. Me atheist, DH reared Catholic but agnostic, his parents still churchgoers. I said that if he felt strongly about the children being baptized I was happy to go along with it, but he would have to arrange everything. His parents knew this but put no pressure on. It never happened and was not mentioned again.

This struck me. "I will be disappointed in him if he decides to christen the baby." I know you haven't told him this but will you be able to hide it?

I think letting the decision be your husband's sole responsibility is fair enough and I understand your reasoning. But I know, if it were me, I'd have to make a real effort (and possibly fail!) to be supportive if he made a decision I disagreed with. He's obviously struggling with it and it would be unfair to say 'up to you' then disapprove later - but I'd struggle with this. Something to think about.

As for the WWYD, I would be uncomfortable with the idea myself but there's really very little logical reason for this - as a non-believer the ceremony is meaningless to me and the child will make their own choices anyway.

But I don't like the idea of doing it to appease family (perhaps more so if their beliefs were ones I disagreed with rather than just didn't share). I wouldn't stand up and lie either.

They can christen him themselves whenever they like, we were instructed at Catholic school on how to christen people. I christened all my guinea pigs.
So if they are worried about the baby's soul (although hasn't it now been decided that limbo doesn't exist?) they can do that without your involvement.
If it's the ceremony and the party they want, have a naming ceremony.

You are being very very reasonable OP.

eh i never understand what the big deal is, i was christened but i am not religious now as have grown up with my own beliefs but its not like being christened damaged me or has created issues with me being whatever religion i want to be, i don't see the problem with just christening him for the PIL sake and then when the child grows up he/she can decide on whatever belief they wish to follow.

The issue is one of having to stand up in church and make solemn pledges about how you will support the child's religious upbringing. You can find yourself playing the part of a grade A hypocrite.

I am godmother to my nephew and it was only during the christening that I realised that what I was having to declare at the font was totally untrue; I felt a complete fraud and kicked myself for not having given greater thought with regard to the dogma. I was in my 20s at the time - no excuse, but it meant that by the time my children were born there was no way I was going to have them christened. Both our families have a background of religious involvement, but fortunately both my husband and I were of the same opinion that our children could choose their own religion later in life, should they want to.

I haven't read all the posts, so sorry if I'm repeating.

Why not refuse a christening, but encourage PIL to have input into DGC's understanding of the Catholic church, e.g. take them to mass etc.with the understanding that DGC will decide for themselves later on.

It will be much harder explaining to your adult child that they are christened into the Catholic church because you didn't want to upset their GPs.

@Mookatron S
(disclaimer: I have no idea if Catholics believe unchristened children go to hell or not)

They don't.

You're whole "I won't lie, I won't help" is of course making it as hard as possible for him. That's clearly your intent.

So OP should lie?

I think you’re taking a very sensible and balanced approach. As long you genuinely won’t hold it against him if he does opt to go ahead with the christening, which might be easier said than done as you admit you will be disappointed in him, then I think you’re dealing with this in a very healthy and respectful way.

I respect your position and the concessions you've made, but I think YABU to wash your hands of the catering & organising if I'm honest. A christening is also an opportunity to celebrate the baby's safe arrival. I don't think I could sit by and expect my partner to organise and cater the whole thing and deliberately not lift a finger to help. You're a family. Family pitch in. It's nice that you have realised this has cultural importance to your ILs, but pointedly not helping isn't really being that accepting of it, especially if they are not in a position to do it themselves. And anyone who comes is a guest. You can argue they're DH's guests but aren't you a team? And really they are there for your baby.

Is there any scope of compromising on when the baptism occurs? Round the first birthday seems fairly popular among my friends, and easier to manage all round. But is younger required for Catholics?

I understand why you'll leave the decision to him, and that you'll go along with it if he wants it to happen, but if it does then you either attend with good grace (without standing up and promising anything) which includes what happens at the 'do' afterwards or you avoid the whole thing and go somewhere else for the day.

I seem to remember in some state primary schools near me, being baptised gives you preference over those who aren't. Even if you are in the wrong Christian denomination, you'd still get preference over those with no affiliation at all.

@DameSylvieKrin

I christened all my guinea pigs.

I can tell you were a very kind little girl 😅

There have been some issues with religion in my own childhood, yes. Not Catholicism though. That is why I am trying to be fair, I am aware that my gut reaction may not be the right one.

It's left me very, very wary of "funnelling" a child in one particular direction or another. I very much believe that a child should be given knowledge and left to make their own choices. I would genuinely have no problem if my child asked at an older age to be taken to Mass etc, but I want to be sure it's coming from their own wishes and not one which has been imposed upon them.

The organisation thing - honestly, even if I was 100% behind a christening, DH would be doing the lion's share of that anyway. It is likely I will have to have a section, plus I will hopefully be breastfeeding, and there's no way I'll be running after caterers or hiring halls or anything.

Caterers! Halls! ??? Blimey.

You are being very very reasonable OP

Possibly but I do think she's being disingenuous. I think she's saying you decide to her husband then making it as hard for him as possible.

I think respecting his decision would be helping him with it. Sure don't stand up in church, not even to help him, but to make it clear you'll do nothin to help him at all and will be dispointed in him doesn't smack if respecting his decision.

I was Church of England, but stopped going to church at 15 and consider myself a non-believer. DP was Catholic and his parents were very religious, but dp had not been to church in our 13 years together before we had children.

I particularly dislike the catholic religion as there seem to be a lot of guilt involved.

When we decided to try for a baby, I made it clear that

1. I was not bothered about getting married but would if mattered to him. However I would not get married when pregnant, if it was going to be an issue, we would have to do it before trying to conceive or after a baby was born.
2. I would be happy for any children to be christened Catholic providing he was happy to take the children to church regularly. I really dislike it when people get their children Christened just for tradition/the party / the presents.

Result over 20 years later we are still very happily unmarried with two wonderful atheist children. To be fair to his dp parents they have never voiced their opinions on any of this to dp or I. It probably helped that his db who had the full on big big catholic wedding was dumped by his wife after about a year.

Also, I just won't lie. I can't. I don't think it's fair or respectful or right, and it will make me feel extremely uncomfortable.

For example
If I was asked "will you support DH as he explains his faith to your children" I would say "yes", because it's true and I know he will support me as I pass on knowledge about other things that he may not agree with.

If I was asked "will you raise these children in the Catholic faith which is the one true faith etc" I would have to say no, because I won't.

I can't lie about that.

I had dc christened partly because they need to be christened if they want to get married in church
This is not true for the Church of England (not sure about other denominations).

I was pretty much in your situation.

In the end, I trust that our children will have the intelligence to not be religious and I knew that having magic water sprinkled on them by a deluded man in a frock made no difference to me.

As for the 'planning and catering'. We took 20 people out to a nice restaurant and enjoyed the day.

I think you guys need to think about this some more. It's more than a christening.

How will he raise your child catholic and you won't? You can't do thay to a kid.

In the end, I trust that our children will have the intelligence to not be religious and I knew that having magic water sprinkled on them by a deluded man in a frock made no difference to me

I'm agnostic but even I can see that's deeply offensive to religious people.