To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

[jnfrrss]

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

The problem with childcare on UC as opposed to childcare on tax credits, shows clearly that UC is designed to punish, not to help people back into work.

You are sanctioned if you don't take up work, or more hours. As we all know, childcare is hugely expensive and takes up most of a person's wages if on nmw. Even the govt recognise this as they are saying they will pay 85% for the lowest paid.

Under tax credits, you just call up, give the details of your childminder/nursery , and your childcare payment will be in the bank at most within 2 weeks.

Under UC, you have to first pay the full childcare bill yourself (how??!!) , submit receipts , and then UC will pay you back the next month. This can't wait - you have to pay on time and submit receipts on time or else they won't be accepted. They refuse to pay you back at all if your childcare costs are more than your wages (but you still have to work, and presumably pay more than your wages in childcare whilst attending foodbanks). and they refuse to pay childcare for when you are travelling to work (??!!).

Old system actually makes it simple to start work, second system is designed to make it really difficult - who on minimum wage/unemployed has hundreds or thousands spare just sitting around to pay for childcare at the time they start work??

Tell me how this policy for childcare is 'helping people into work' ?? It's one of the biggest problems / loopholes with UC that NEED to be fixed. It's completely unfair - there is no reason that UC can't pay the childcare element upon receipt of the proof that Childcare is being attended - it wouldn't cost them any more - it's just a way of clawing back some money when they find loopholes not to pay it back when the person has already paid. Btw they don't bother telling people that they won't pay out if childcare is more than wages - they wait til you've paid out when you can't afford, then refuse to pay you back, and then if you leave the job due to this, they will sanction you.

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? (Sic)

Sure they could save for a couple years and go for a week in tenerife but then why would anyone begrudge them that?

are you trying to be goady? Do you think all working families paying in taxes for these peope can afford a week in Tenerife?

for selfish lazy feckless breeders to sit on their fat arses
Wow! Just wow!

If you can't afford to have a baby via paying for it yourself you don't have one.

It really is that simple !!

Why on earth anyone thinks they deserve hand outs is beyond me

sosick. its easy to see why the sex industry has become an option. there is a stronger guarantee that ppl would actually get paid.

I don't think you need an extra £40 a week for a third child. It doesn't cost that much to make a slightly bigger meal for another kid. These women should stop being so greedy and dramatic. I have one child on benefits and i have enough money to put some into savings.

are you trying to be goady? This made me laugh...

If you cannot afford another child then why should hard-working people have to fund it for you??

@ZX81user do you think anyone on benefits can??? I bloody couldn’t when I was on benefits, I was more worried about the basics, like food and bills!
In fact it’s only very very recently we’ve been able to afford a holiday anywhere, but would I grudge someone scrimping and saving out of benefit payments if they could manage it? Nope.

Sosick, maybe they should have considered childcare costs before getting pregnant. It's not like it's an unknown cost.

Paying up front and claiming back likely reduces the costs. Plenty under tax credits claimed a full week at nursery when only working a couple of days a week as felt they deserved a break. If paying themselves they might be more precise.

Why on earth anyone thinks they deserve hand outs is beyond me
I do.
Oh, and there are people who haven't been able to fully comprehend the new rules, so they had children after April 2017.
There are people who were doing just fine and had children after April 2017 and they they got made redundant or their partner left or they escaped the dv they'd been experiencing or they became ill. They deserve monies provided by the state to ensure their wellbeing, or what you call (in your disgusting derisory manner) 'handouts'. But they're not getting them. Their children are going without in some cases and the parent is going without to ensure the child doesn't. Perhaps if you thought about the impact these policies have on people, you know, real live people and their children; you'd be a little kinder.

@BoxsetsAndPopcorn you assume everyone who is on benefits and a parent was already on benefits when they had a child. Which is pretty narrow minded no?

I was working full time and had been for 10 years before DS1 was born. I became a single parent when he was 1.

Sosick, maybe they should have considered childcare costs before getting pregnant. It's not like it's an unknown cost.
Maybe they were working and able to afford said childcare when they got pregnant. Maybe they didn't know that their job would be changing and that after maternity leave they'd be on a zero hours contract. Maybe as happened to a friend of mine, the business got taken over and she was forced to take a lower paid job within the company.

Maybe you're best ignored...

Boxsets, I don't have words for what you just said..

It's quite simple - NO-ONE on minimum wage can afford childcare. Here childcare for even one child is £38 a day. NO-ONE on minimum wage could hope to afford that cost. Even the govt you support admit that, as they have to pay 85%.

So effectively you are saying that people in minimum wage jobs should not have children then

Where do you draw the line?? Society needs people to work in minimum wage jobs - who will care for the elderly, serve you in shops or bars?? These people should not be able to have children according to you, because their childcare will cancel out wages.

Astounding. The same old bs is trotted out continuously.

@sosickandtired I expect they’ll start blathering about “protecting bloodlines” and “natural selection” next.

"Where do you draw the line?? Society needs people to work in minimum wage jobs - who will care for the elderly, serve you in shops or bars?"

I give it 30 years or possibly less and the narrative will be reframed........childfree by choice people will be blamed for not having children.

I’m sorry are people actually reading the article? This woman deliberately got pregnant with a third child because she believed that the state would give her more money!! Sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy. Why on earth should a woman who doesn’t work and lives off the state be allowed to choose to have three children funded by the tax payer? While those who work have to budget to pay for the number of children they have and get nothing extra except child benefit? This is exactly why the changes were brought in. And by the way she did have an alternative option - she could have given the baby up for adoption - I appreciate that that is just as hard but people with unexpected pregnancies face decisions like this ie teen mothers.

and 'plenty' did not claim more for childcare under tc than they needed.. where are your figures?? other than rhetoric from your own head..

I was sent compliance letters and had to prove my childcare hours twice under tax credits.. if they suspected your childcare was more than your hours they would investigate.. plenty of people indeed..

The point is that the government want people to work, especially single parents. No-one unemployed or on minimum wage can afford to pay upfront. So it is a direct barrier to work. But govt don't care. UC is a way of punishing people for not being able to have 2xfull time incomes coming in, for being disabled, for needing any support whatsoever. It's not designed to 'make work pay' as it says..

In areas where UC is rolled out, food bank referrals rise exponentially , I'm guessing you believe that FACT is just all these lazy scroungers (including working and disabled people), out to greedily grab what they can of tinned foods??!!

How ridiculous, agree totally with Painted Horizons - spot on !!!

Can I please ask the question...what is universal credit?

I have to agree with some posters and m here, if you can’t afford to have children, then don’t have children! It really is as simple as that. If you can’t afford a bigger house, the mortgage company would not give you a mortgage, if you can’t afford the repayments on a car, then the finance company won’t give you a loan.

Benefits are there to help the people who can’t work, not the people who choose not to work. You will always be better off if you work regardless of childcare costs as they are also covered. Ok claiming back childcare costs is a pain in the arse, but so is claiming back expenses from my employer, but it’s something you have to deal with. You have to claim back childcare after you’ve paid for it. But hey, guess what, that’s the same as claiming back expenses from your employer. It again comes back to ensuring you can cover the costs before taking the job, this can also be applied to deciding to have children.

"I give it 30 years or possibly less and the narrative will be reframed........childfree by choice people will be blamed for not having children."

Yes, they are 'selfish'. Not my view but one that was mainstream not very long ago, within my lifetime.

So a story about an unemployed couple who live apart to get more in benefits and aborts their third child because they will not get any more benefits for it is portrayed as a story showing the failings of universal credits?

I think this shows how seriously flawed our benefits system is and how people manipulate it. I am also a bit aghast at the fact that after having 2 healthy boys the only reason they wanted to try for a third was they wanted a girl. Supposing they had a third boy? Children are not possessions which you get rid of if not the right sex or a means of gaining more benefits.

As to the drawbacks of universal credit I daresay there probably are some but I don't think placing a limit on the number of children families gain benefits for is unreasonable. Working families need to think about cost implications for a third child as salaries don't increase each time they have a baby. Why should those who rely on benefits be any different?

Thebluedog..

But again - how many unemployed/low income people can even afford to pay upfront the first month, realistically??

And as for your assertion that people will always be better off if they work - that is not the case. When UC was originally conceived that was the case, but the cuts made to it in 2015 and 2017 have made this untrue. The majority of working people especially Parents are WORSE OFF under UC when working than under the taxcredits system. Quite a significant number are WORSE OFF working than not working under UC - I myself work ft but I am worse off in UC than if I wasn't working at all. I was better off working than not under the old system.

Some people just don't understand that UC is simply a way of reducing the incomes of the poorest sections of society - those reliant on renting expensive but shitty damp private rented flats, expensive pre payment meters, travel costs, zero hours and minimum wage jobs, and disabled people.

This is not going to end well. Considering only about 10% of tax credit claimants have been moved to uc to date and the rates of food bank use are really rising. There have been deaths directly due to this. I for one have been forced into a dangerous industry.

But people still like to keep their blinkers on..