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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think unversal credit is a disaster *trigger warning*

902 replies

jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 08:31

This just popped up in my feed. Talking about someone that had an abortion as they wouldn't be able to afford the child without credits. It's not just an isolated issue, a charity says they've had a huge increase in women contacting about abortions as now they won't be able to afford to have any more children. I'm not sure what the answer is but this is very worrying

www.mirror.co.uk/money/it-wasnt-planned-very-wanted-12480380

OP posts:
SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 20:08

But working full time puts a lot of people at a financial disadvantage when you have young children. And lots of people only work part time while there children are small, and it also gives more people the opportunity for employment and gives a better work life balance. There is absolutely no need to demonize it!

sosickandtired · 05/05/2018 20:12

Boxsets -

Yes debts were also paid back under the old system too. At lower amounts taken. Now they are being taken at huge amounts and without warning. Was a case recently of a pregnant woman, supposed to have £317 a month to live on after rent, debts were taken from her UC and she was left with £190 a MONTH to live on, that's £47 A WEEK to pay for food, gas and elec, any rent excess, and travel to appointments, also internet connection cause you need that for uc. She had to go to foodbanks, pregnant. Had done nothing 'wrong', wasn't sanctioned, just happened to have debt. Personally I have been forced into sex industry due to UC taking hundreds a month for my debts rather than the manageable amounts taken on the old system. But of course you think this is 'fair' for this poor pregnant lady and myself, working full time - facepalm!!

For your information, Hardship funds are NOT just 'an advance on the claim' as you put it. What happens when someone is sanctioned (which even working people can be now), is that the person's ENTIRE personal element is taken, which means that they have NOTHING to live on, NOTHING as in ZERO to buy food with or anything. The hardship payments used to be 60% of their personal element so the person could at least have just under £40 a week to eat and pay for heating and hot water. Now this is a loan only, in effect extending the sanction many times over and putting the person into debt..

DontHaveAGoPlease · 05/05/2018 20:14

All the people saying the child cap is a good thing is probably the same damn people who claim/ed CTC for their 3rd/4th child.

housingadvice123 · 05/05/2018 20:16

It's the infrastructure that's the problem, not overpopulation.

housingadvice123 · 05/05/2018 20:21

I am praying I earn enough when I qualify next year that I do not need tax credits anymore and I am scared to death for anyone who has to stay on it. This government is pure evil

BoxsetsAndPopcorn · 05/05/2018 20:25

Yes, it's really evil to take steps to ensure personal responsibility across the country Hmm If people hadn't been greedy and workshy they wouldn't have had to change it so much.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 20:28

If people hadn't been greedy and workshy they wouldn't have had to change it so much

Ooft. It must be exhausting being you, what with all the assumptions, poisonous and wrong assertions and bitterness. You should try and be kinder, otherwise it’s a long old life to lead being angry with people.

harshbuttrue1980 · 05/05/2018 20:30

Benefits should be a safety net for people who fall on hard times, not a way of life. People should plan their families around what they can afford, and people who work can take out income protection policies. If you can't afford children, then you shouldn't have them. I agree with the two-child cut-off, but would make an exception for rape. If a man has been convicted of rape, then a woman who has given birth to a child from the rape should be entitled to full support for that child.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 20:31

Yes, it's really evil to take steps to ensure personal responsibility across the country hmm If people hadn't been greedy and workshy they wouldn't have had to change it so much.
Yeah, all those people with illnesses and disabilities, some of whom are unable to work, and carers too; completely workshy. Hmm

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/05/2018 20:33

If a man has been convicted of rape

The conviction rate is dire. Really, really dire.

Smeddum · 05/05/2018 20:33

If a man has been convicted of rape, then a woman who has given birth to a child from the rape should be entitled to full support for that child

Have you seen the rape conviction rates for this country? They’re woefully low.

SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 20:36

Posters like harshbuttrue and Boxsets*, you just seem to be so far out of touch with the reality of living for so many people, and frankly you sound like the sole source of your news and social commentary from the front page of the Daily Mail....

Like for example the comment of the exception to the 2 child rule being rape. Do you know how many rapists actually get convicted? Do you know how many women actually prosecute? It's just... So disheartening to see people but especially women post stuff like this, when many of the people suffering the most from these welfare reforms are going to be women.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 20:36

Harsh You are woefully wrong in your research. Income protection policies rarely pay out and the conviction rate for rape is as others say. Apart from which, the woman who has been raped may not be in a position to say so.

DontHaveAGoPlease · 05/05/2018 20:41

This country is run by the same fuckwits commenting on this thread.

Scary!

You can't tell a woman she's only been legitimately raped as long as she's got a conviction Angry absolute bullshit

twelly · 05/05/2018 20:42

The old system was costly, confusing and complex. The new system is not perfect but it is simpler and clearer, it also attempts to be fairer, and whilst that is not always the case it is more transparent

Bowlofbabelfish · 05/05/2018 20:43

Dh and I were actually looking for income protection policies this year - we had a good sit down with the finances and sorted a lot of stuff out.
We actually couldn’t find one that was fit for purpose (and we’d have been willing to pay fair premiums too.)

Agustarella · 05/05/2018 20:46

"Agustarella Imagine getting a sanction and being admitted to the hospital where you were doing workfare with malnutrition."

I can imagine that most vividly @HelenaDove. I remember my friend saying to me "Imagine if you were on workfare at Tesco and you were going hungry, but it was your job to throw away the out of date food!" All sorts of horrible scenarios.

I remember I did go hungry in my first year of university (parents cocked up the grant paperwork) and the academic pressure along with not being able to eat much made me faint and nauseous. I imagine UC is like that, except you have to watch your kids going hungry too, and you don't even have the escape hatch I did (I could have dropped out or broken the rules and got a termtime job).

All this is why I'm leaving the country. I get tax credits but I won't get UC. I don't even want to get it, I just want to live somewhere where the cost of living is manageable.

flowermug2 · 05/05/2018 20:47

We all choose where to live, where to work, if we have children

  • Not if you're made homeless and placed in hostels and temp accommodation by the council, moved around with no "home", not if you have to take whatever is offered to you because you cannot afford anything else.
  • Not if you are a Job seeker, where you have to go to interviews for 'suitable' jobs regardless of whether you "want" to do it. Not if you are so desperate you take shitty jobs just to scrape by.
  • Abusive relationships and late-stage discieverd pregnancy/failed con springs to mind...
Gilead · 05/05/2018 20:53

twelly in what way is the new system fair? How are unreasonable sanctions fair? How is it fair that people with inoperable brain tumours are being told that they're fit to work? People with learning difficulties? People with dementia?

Original poster
jnfrrss · 05/05/2018 21:08

You can keep on saying not wanting a radio blaring outside is the same as wanting people to be silent, but it still won't be true. Biscuit

Agree when did it all change and so many find it acceptable? Music or movies are often played aloud even in the quiet carriages. But I guess that's people's entitlement as they are entitled to be as loud as they like even in the quiet carriage Hmm "oh I can't speak for long I'm in the quiet carriage" continues for another quarter of an hour keeping saying they are in the quiet carriage.

OP posts:
SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 21:15

Whaaaaaaa?

Masterbuilders · 05/05/2018 21:17

I do think it needed to be capped. People who don’t claim any form of TC or UC have to choose if they can afford to have more children, so should people on benefits. It was a ludicrous situation with the TC system which was over generous it did need fixing.

HOWEVER

The cost of living in this country is astronomical. We were in the outrageous situation where mortgage providers were taking state benefits as income. As a lot of people can’t afford a mortgage without them and they were being regarded as normal income.

That says a lot about how fucked up the wage to cost of living ratio is in this country. House prices, rents, wage levels. All that needed to be sorted first before UC. All they’ve done now is throw millions of families to the wolves. The whole wage thing and housing costs etc. I could be here all day. However it’s pretty obvious that wages vs cost of living in this country is fucked. They’ve taken the one lifeline which kept many at living wage.

We are a high earning family and count ourselves fortunate, we were not always and I honestly can see how this could literally finish people off.

Heyduggeesflipflop · 05/05/2018 21:34

The worldview of some on this thread is telling.

‘The government is evil’ - really? Aside from the dubious logic of describing the entire apparatus of government as evil, this is just ridiculous. If the current state of affairs is evil what were the nazis and Stalin’s of the world? Get real!

You are not owed a living. Nor am I.

If you think this government is ‘evil’ let me tell you this - if I was an influencer in government I would do away with much of the welfare state. As a taxpayer I strongly feel that those who cling to the teat of the state as a lifestyle choice should get short shrift. It should be a limited emergency measure only. That doesn’t make me evil it makes me a realist

Government is too big as it is. The state is not a surrogate for personal responsibility. The state is not ‘mum and dad’

SilverDoe · 05/05/2018 21:37

The government is not evil. It is indifferent to the suffering and hard ship of many, in favour of the benefit and enormous profit of the few. It really is not that hard to understand. Basically, they are selfish cunts.

I don't know how you can consider yourself a "realist" and simultaneously claim to be comfortable with getting rid of the entire concept of welfare. If you truly believe that, then clearly you are well aligned with this government and I have no qualms whatsoever with feeling you are a selfish cunt too.

Gilead · 05/05/2018 21:43

Hey how do you differentiate between those who are genuine and those who use welfare as a 'lifestyle choice'? This government has decided to punish the majority because of the few; you approve of that?
There are people with disabilities who are really struggling, to eat, to heat, to stay alive. People are being declared fit for work with inoperable brain tumours and you want to dismantle rather than improve?