AIBU to ask you to explain cultural appropriation and why it is bad to me

[ConfusedWife1234]

So I am a white woman of mixed European ancestry and I think most of the things I typically wear are European or US American in origin, apart from polo Shirts and khakis (which I learned are Indian in origin, but I did not even know this until recently).

So I am not sure what cultural appropriation is. Is it cultural appropriation:

-If a rich person dresses down
-If a poor person dresses like a billionaire
-If a civilian wears clothes of military origin
-If a white European dresses like a white American
-If a white European dresses like a Afroamerican
-If a young person attends a re-enactment group and dresses up for a historical event that happened before he or she was born

Or is is just cultural appropriation if a person from another culture chooses to dress in a dress worn for special occasion... like this girl who wore a Chinese wedding dress for her prom.

Also why is cultural appropriation bad. Not asking to be snarky here. Really interested to learn.

Is it that the dress is seen as sacred, like maybe a Christian would be offended if someone wore a cross as part of his dress... or is it the idea that a certain style of dress must be earned.

MillicentF, the English treatment of the Irish, banned their language, culture and religion. Death of one million through food laws and colonisation that resulted in the famine. Use of all the country's resources, exporting food to Uk when the Irish were eating grass and dying, forced economic emigration. There's an example.

Is it CA then for English people to celebrate St Patricks day or drink Guinness or the rest. IMO no as CA is mostly propagated by white middle class young people who lack a real struggle or political cause and assume that feeling is thinking.

Someone mentioned non NZ rugby teams doing hakas. Might have missed the point of what the various hakas are.

The Ka Mate is the one that the All Blacks do. It is not a war dance or a challenge, it is a thanks for life after a near death experience. It has been taken all over the world and quite a few sports have teams that include a Ka Mate haka. Almost all that I have ever read about have been introduced by Tongan players - including quite a few American football teams.

And then there was the Welsh rugby team, Bethesda. They performed a brilliant haka. Well, their single NZ Maori did. Based on Welsh history.

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/rugby-minnows-bethesda-turn-maori-2802692

I am not sure there have been m/any hakas performed by non Maori participants that haven't been supported by Tongans etc, and have all been respectful. So, is that really cultural appropriation, it's about spreading a culture, keeping it alive.

I am not sure that much else that is currently labelled and denigrated is really a negative thing. Separatism is a quick road to annihilation and modern technology is making the word smaller and smaller every day!

We need to be very careful where we choose take offence.

Does CA actually change anything for the better in peoples lives? Would Elvis P for example, acknowledgement of the influence of black music he 'stole' from changed the lives of said black musicians? No because of LAWS at the time. As far as I can see if you actually want to make a difference go about changing laws politically as I do not know a single human over 35 who does anything but laugh at the idea of CA.

Polly- I can't actually think of anything the English have appropriated from Irish culture. But if they did, then yes, it would be just as unacceptable as CA from native Americans or Australians.

I will listen to, read and respect people talking about CA if it is their culture they are talking about. But so often, it isn’t. It’s paternalistic spouting by the opinionated, attempting to be offended on the part of someone else.

Many of the people running ‘Indian’ restaurants are of Bangladeshi origin.

It is actually a bit difficult for what remains of the First Nation Australian people to get a hearing about their views on posh boys busking with didgeridoos covered in sacred symbols in the Home Counties.......

Cultural appropriation is a problem when it can be perceived that someone is mocking another culture, especially a persecuted culture. For whites there is the fact that historically we absolutely did suppress and persecute other cultures, and a growing movement think that we should avoid referencing other cultures for that reason. Like penance, in a way.

There was a mini scandal last week over an American girl who wore a Chinese dress to her prom. A Chinese American noticed and basically led an online bullying campaign against her. www.buzzfeed.com/kassycho/keziah-daum-prom-qipao-cheongsam?utm_term=.dve1ALZ9g#.spylPL7od However her biggeest supporters turned out to be Chinese people living in China who didn't understand the fuss and felt it was a compliment. www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/world/asia/chinese-prom-dress.html

I’d say that most Bangladeshi people running restaurants are running Bangladeshi restaurants, based on their menus... the fact that British people call every cuisine from that part of Asia “indian” is a whole other issue.

MillicantF having spent many St Patricks day in London lots of English people dress up in green clothes and wear ginger beards etc, its as much CA as the other examples on this thread. They adopt stereotypical Irish looks and celebrate it, how dare they when they haven't had centuries of racism and discrimination thrust upon them. See isn't it just ridiculous when we apply the idea of CA to other things.

Bredas... 'For whites' eg? See Irish example, white culture. Did not cause genocides in other countries. All your ideas are so flawed.

So, no problems if we stick to our own cultures, respect other cultures except where their values come into direct conflict with ours, no cross-overs, inviting ourselves into culturally-fraught scenarios, or appropriating elements.
Problem is that schools have been pushing multiculturalism in a variety of forms, some good, some not, for decades. So we need to start in preschool and continue to at least 18, which will address the issue of posh boys and didgeridoos and cornrows and henna and costumes.

Polly-I haven't seen anyone English dressing up as an Irish person- I didn't know it was a "thing". I always spend St Pat's surrounded by real Irish people. I wouldn't care for the ginger wigs, to be honest. Certainly a bit icky.

Patrick wasn’t Irish, he was kidnapped and sold as a slave by the Irish. Went back to convert them.

Don’t think anyone said he was Irish, did they?

And it is, actually, OK to have new ideas. It used to be thought a good idea for artefacts from different countries to be brought to nice safe Western museums to be properly looked after. For animals to be kept in zoos for us all to look at. To name but two ideas that have had their day. We can do things for a long time then suddenly think “Oh, hang on, that’s a bit shit, isn’t it.?” It’s called progress.......

@BossBaby7 , I thought along similar lines about the OP's "superior German genes" when she explained her appreciation of Bach. Many Africans bought by the Germans (yes they DID have colonies, they are just extremely good at forgetting about them due to their superior knowledge about the world that revolves around Germany) were bought to play the instruments to Germans of the time. So tell me that those African slaves in their shirts etc with violins in their hands had no understanding and appreciation of the depth of music. Music is something that touches all hearts whether it is a Celidh drum or a Sitar, the music of the world is for people of the world. As far as I am aware, there have always been black and Asian people interested in classical music just as there are lots of white men and women who love Reggae or a bit of Fela Kuti!

When God created man, he made HUmans, not GerMANs.

So how do we undo the years of multicultural muddle in schools, and the ‘taster day’ magpie-ing? I agree that the our society is in a constant state of change and flux, I am having interesting discussions with DD about gender identification, Trans issues, female spaces, and our understandings are different. Perhaps the older should follow the lead of the younger generation, and accept without fully understanding why.

pollypebble No, I understand that. It gets a bit murky there - English people have tried to stamp on other traditionally white cultures too - stopping the Welsh learning their language at one point, the massive issues around Northern Ireland, and I believe we even attempted to ban the kilt at some point? But that's not as easy to spot and question as a white girl in a cheongsam dress...

Wait! Brenda... that's history... how long is too long to keep on bringing it up as though it is current ideology?

Every country in the world has oppressed it own people, its neighbours and others. Stop wallowing in it as though it is some Badge of Dishonour.

It is what was, we should all learn from it, we have in many cases, many other countries have too, some have not. Why keep on using a lesson learned as a stick with which to beat yourself?

It's a bit like taking antibiotics 'just in case'. Has no logical reason behind it and dilutes the effect of the antibiotic!

It used to be thought a good idea for artefacts from different countries to be brought to nice safe Western museums to be properly looked after
Millicent - museums and stately homes in U.K. are full of items from all over the world. Should each one be returned to its country of origin?

Went to Ashmolean last Thursday and did get stealth guilt about all the nice things sourced from other countries.

Wallowing? It was literally a passing thought from my sunlounger...

“Millicent - museums and stately homes in U.K. are full of items from all over the world. Should each one be returned to its country of origin?”

Are you saying that you are unaware of the debate around this issue?