To be worried about teenage boys?

[Summerisicumenin]

I am a HLTA in a secondary school. Naice area, very well thought of school and all that.

Teenagers seem to think that adults are all hard of hearing, and because I'm working over a range of classes, I often hear some "interesting" conversations.

Recently, however, I have been struck by the attitudes that seem fairly common amongst the boys.

For example, in the last few weeks I've heard the following, all from different groups of boys chatting in class

• a conversation on how stupid feminists are, discussion of an anti feminism YouTube video they all seem to have watched and swallowed whole, how feminists are thick, stupid, whores.
• one boy was talking about his mother - she earns 40k a year in a responsible, professional role. We are far from London and this is a very good wage in our area. Her son informed his friends that she was a lazy bitch, her wage was pathetic, and she was stupid for working for anything under 70k.
• porn videos they have watched
• one boy got a girlfriend. She allowed him to "finger her". On discovering her pubic hair, he told her "that's disgusting, shave it off". Loud agreement from his friends.
• discussion of a local news story about breastfeeding. Agreement that it's disgusting and women shouldn't do it in public.
• once or twice when a nearby girl has attempted to join the conversation she is jeered at and told to shut the fuck up.
• people on benefits mocked

These are all specific examples. If I were to list the throwaway comments regarding women and girls, I'd be here all day.

On top of this, I've noticed an increasingly dismissive attitude to female members of staff, and in class it's almost always boys who are rude, disrupt the class, and shout down other pupils.

Girls rarely speak in class. When they chat amongst themselves, it is normal stuff about their day, whereas many of the boys have a default attitude of furious and critical.

I don't want it to seem as though I have a downer on boys - I absolutely don't. I've encountered many more who are absolutely delightful young men, and a joy to work with. However it seems as though a significant and growing minority of boys are incredibly angry, rigid and sexist in their thinking, especially around women. I can't help but think a lot of it is down to porn. I don't remember hearing boys speak like that when I was a teenager, and if I did I would have challenged it. I had just as many male friends as female.

It worries me that these boys will become men in a few years, men with views that I thought were outdated long ago, and nobody is challenging them. Or helping them for that matter, because they don't seem very happy either

Is this happening in class ?

I went to a mixed comp, ime the boys always caused the most disruption and got all the attention, but none of them ever spoke to the girls like this, they might have wanted to tell us to STFU, but they didn't. All my dds go to girls only secondary schools. Girls have enough crap to deal with in school (and society) during their teens without having to put up with shit like this at school. Is it an answer to the problem, no, but at least my dds can engage fully at school and get an education without feeling like second class citizens.

@ThisIsTheFirstStep I totally agree. I went to an all girls school where confidence was palpably higher and stereotyping lower than the co ed equivalents. I feel the same way about my daughter's (girls) school. They have the rest of their lives to attempt to coexist and compete with men, let them have their formative years without being talked over or pushed away from STEM subjects.

@Grandmaswagsbag I'm ashamed to say I was very disappointed when we found out. It mostly comes from fear, I know. I've come to terms with it now and am excited about meeting my son, but I'm still hugely apprehensive about the massive challenges ahead.

Same. My bookish 11 year old is thriving in an all girl feminist environment. Am jealous tbh we were treated appallingly by teenage boys at school. Delightful to be rated out of 10 on your looks daily

I am not sure it’s just boys though. Things I overhear on the bus from teenage girls are often much worse than that... on the other hand I can’t imagine my teenage son being interested in breastfeeding enough to discuss it in class. Maybe because he is in an all boys school.

None of this 'girls' schools are awesome' stuff actually addresses the problem, though, does it? Swerving it for a few years doesn't make it go away. I'm not saying this is for young girls to fix (of course it isn't) - I'm saying that congratulating yourself that your child won't be exposed to it until the age of 18 doesn't really deal with the thereafter. Even if you're educating your girls in a single-sex environment, you should be worried about the rise of this.

I'm pregnant with a boy and this is my single biggest fear. It's so utterly depressing.

Don't worry, real life boys are a very different species to the mn version of boys.
My teenage boys and their friends are certainly not like this. And no, I don't live in a bubble and think they are all angels. I have asked my dd(16) before if her dbs/their friends/boys in general talk like this at school and she insists they don't. So while I agree it is a problem with some boys, it most certainly isn't most of them.

I am incredibly worried. What do you propose I "do"? I would lock down porn tomorrow and police the internet to protect this generation but I can't. All I can do is shelter my own dds for a few years until they are older and hopefully tougher and teach them how they need to be resilient.

@pigmcpigface I agree (and am still worried for all girls) but I strongly believe that your teenage years where you become socialised as an adult are extremely important in shaping your attitudes, mode of interaction with the world, and self esteem - so for that reason I would argue it gives girls a better chance of coping in the adult world, to develop those things away from boys and all the inherent inequalities of a mixed sex environment. Otherwise it's normalised to them.

And yes I know many fab teenage boys it's not boys that anger me it's the culture they are growing up in

Obviously OP you spend more time around teenage boys than me but I haven’t seen this at all to the extent you describe ( thank God)
I have a teen dd and the boys she mixes with seem a nice bunch
There was an incident last year when a boy she used to go to school with called her a slut on Insta when she showed a photo of herself and a friend who happened to be a boy - he was called out on it by a lot of other boys and she hit him down very quickly and blocked him.
She was also called a “swot” and it was a male friend who again defended her straight away.
From what she says there does seem to be a slightly more disparaging attitude towards girls who “try too hard” with the boys and some double standards around boys and girls and their interactions- ie she’s a slut but he’s a player
Mind you they are probably a bit too young to be accessing porn ( I hope but maybe I’m naive) so perhaps it will change but she’s at a small Private School where Respect for each other is one of the key things they teach

All teenagers have been opinionated and think they know it all since forever. (They usually dont....)

They will grow out of it.

OP that is truly terrifying for our DDs.

Whilst l agree that teachers should challenge strongly these attitudes, the real responsibility lies with the parents.

Parents are often far too weak about talking in no uncertain terms about what is and isn't acceptable and, and teaching teenagers that school 'banter' is not real life and shouldn't be considered as behavior to aspire to. I am often shocked by what l see parents let go by unchallenged.

We as parents have to be involved and responsible for teaching our teenagers, and showing by example, healthy attitudes to girls and women.

Pickwick, I agree! I am actually more concerned about girls that my son hangs out with than his classmates in all boys school. When he was 11 at a primary school, he was harassed by a female classmate that insisted on sending him naked selfies and left him in tears. Not all boys are villains and all girls are angels. Why not worry about all teenagers? Or is sexism ok as long as it’s about men?

@pigmcpigface it really depends on the individual girl, what part of her schooling is in a single sex environment, family attitudes and family make up.

I went to a single sex school from 11-16 then went to an A level college to end up in a 80% male dominated environment due to the A level subjects I chose - physical sciences. Of the few girls in my classes 90% of them went to single sex schools before hand. Of the couple who didn't they had brothers - plural - and resilient mothers/female family role models.

On the other hand I know women who went to single sex schools from 11-18, still have difficultly as adults coping with men and standing up for themselves.

Teenaged boys gave always been like this. Loud, opinionated, outrageous for the sake of it. These particular opinions are merely a result of their class, nothing more. It 's not sombre mind of porn fuelled crisis. They will get older, they will mellow and, they will become just like their money obsessed, softly vulgar and, rather bitter lower middle class fathers. If they were working class boys they would be going on about the bloody rich bastards. If they were upper class they wouldn't sleek this way in public but would be calling each other people's and peasants as a joke behind closed doors. They are all at an age where they are pushing the limits, this is simply expressed in different ways because of their influences. They will end up just like their parents in 95% of cases.

Things we can do

• recognise that, however hard you try, you can't fully insulate girls from this. And that there are girls whose parents can't afford to send them to single-sex schools, who are vulnerable, and for whom we are all responsible.
• keep an eye on the manosphere - it's no good claiming you 'just didn't know incels were a thing', or that 'you've never heard of 4chan'. If you have girls, you need to know about this stuff.
• join feminist campaigns and marches against misogyny and violence, and teach girls to do the same - there are some internet campaigns like 'Take back the Tech' and 'Reclaim the internet'
• insist on a good programme of education on sexism for boys in schools
• campaign for tighter laws for online hate and harassment.

I agree to a certain extent Pickwick but I certainly wouldn't think they are all angels either. They are young humans going into adulthood and through puberty. Their brains are flexible until they are in their mid twenties. This flexibility of thought is exploited in the media, social media and advertising. It takes security, maturity and confidence to shake off the influence. Most teenagers get this but that doesn't mean they will do and say stupid things either.

It could be worse, the horrible scumbags could be being silently judged and put down by women who are responsible for their education and welfare.

Or even worse these teenage boys could be grouped in the category 'teenage boys' and written off, living their whole lives by stereotypes that aren't challenged.

You're not listening properly if you are not hearing concerning chatter from girls.

Why don't you go and work at a girls school if it bothers you?

Alternatively chat to the boys an give them some guidance.

Sorry, that was meant to say 'If you have girls, you need to know about this stuff. If you have boys, doubly so'. Dunno where the end of that sentence vanished to!

As it's exams time, did you know that exam boards have decided to monitor social media of those students who have enrolled in exams?

"Teenaged boys gave always been like this."

I agree that some-maybe many have. And they grow up into the sort of men who are making our society unpleasanr for lots of people. So saying "oh well, boys will be boys" hasn't worked in the past-why donyou thinknit will work with this generation?

You have overheard quite a lot, are you invisible?

'Boys have always been like this' -yes but it's quite depressing when 30 years after my school days and the emergence of feminism, it's actually worse in terms of derogating women and appears to be some type of backlash against women attaining a modest level of equality.