To be surprised at "at 2 he should be potty trained"

[Anxiousally]

Read an article in my local news paper a few days ago about a little boy who had been expelled from nursery untill his behaviour improves due to him being violent.
In the story his gran had given the paper a statement saying they felt it was unfair on him as he's only 2, he's still practically a baby he's not even toilet trained.
The paper posted the link to the story on their Facebook page and there were a lot of comments slating the family for complaining about the way the nursery had dealt with this child and then someone copied the part of the story where it mentioned about the toilet training and said "at 2 he bloody should be toilet trained and I was shocked. DS will be 2 next month and I'm not even contemplating potty training as I know he's just not ready yet.
Aibu to be surprised at this opinion, now I'm thinking DS should be trying now and worried he's behind?!

I'm waiting for the 6 week summer holidays to start with my daughter. In part laziness on my part, but I'm busy with work and don't think it's the end of the world if I wait until then. She's 3 in December

My2 - they can control kit much earlier than you think I'd say. It's a partnership, it's about learning together.
My 3 would always go for 'number 2' on the toilet first thing in the morning from about 9months onwards consistently. It was a mix of knowing when they needed it and building into a routine and most likely them waiting for the toilet as well and learning to have some control. It is progressive.
With Elimination Communication it starts with putting the child on when you see they need it/going to go but then moves on to the child knowing to control etc.
Yes it's a faff :) so don't blame anyone who prefers to wait. I personally don't feel comfortable with the idea that my kids are getting used to soiling themselves so I try to compromise with what I feel is right and what I can manage to do :)

Do you remember having your arse wiped at nursery?

No, but I do remember pooing in my knickers at primary school, because I hated the toilets with a passion! I used to hold it all in then come home bursting for the toilet. The inevitable happened, and I still remember the humiliation.

No one remembers being potty trained, at least not in minute detail. We don't remember the ins and outs of when we potty trained our DCs either. My DM maintains that we never had accidents once potty trained. That is of course complete rot.

Allowing a child to be psychologically and physically ready to potty train at their own rate is not 'allowing them to learn to soil themselves'. What a load of crap (pardon the pun). That comment sounded incredibly judgey.
Some will be ready before 2 years and that's fine, the signs will be there. Some won't be ready until 3+ - also fine.

I agree that some of the older generation are unrealistic about being potty trained by 1, and when they think their kids were by that age, they weren't actually independently saying they needed the loo and going to the potty, just weeing on it by chance as they put there very frequently.

That said, I also think it's becoming culturally acceptable in some areas to leave it much longer than when it could be done. You could say, well why does it matter if people just wait longer and the kids will do it faster if 4 rather than 2. This might be true but in my mind has 2 problems, which are that actually being in nappies and sitting in poo is actually not very nice for most 3 year olds who are at a point to not like it, as we wouldn't like it, plus it seems a bit off, if people other than parents such a as nursery workers then have to change big ore-schoolers or even school children who could have been potty trained.

I know children are ready at different times. I know some are not ready until 4 or 5 or later. That isn't the issue and where there are special needs, no-one minds. However, most children without special needs will be ready and can be potty trained between 2 and 3. Yes it involves some work and has an inconvenient phase to it, but that's just one of those things. However, culturally it seems to have crept in in some areas that it's mad to try before 3 and pushing children too hard or just hard work and not worth the effort. That seems a shame when children are usually ready and can do it......we wouldn't delay them in learning to walk or talk, so why delay this other basic stepping stone if they are ready - a child close to 3 is very very likely to be able to do this. If that child is in childcare of some type for part of the week, why would people think delaying is a good idea, apart from they delay the effor for themselves.

And here's a thing, which might not be popular, but is the case......particularly late toilet training, which isn't related to specific additional needs tends to be correlated with other delays in development which are connected with being in lower so it-economic groups. Children from more deprived backgrounds are more likely to start school with weaker language and social skills and more likely not to be toilet trained. It's another sign of more limited parental input than children of more affluent families receive.

I think SureStart centres did encourage families to get on and toilet train between 2 and 3, in the same way they encouraged parents to read to their kids, but it is becoming more the norm to not try toilet training until later.....sometimes much later. Perhaps some parents simply don't have the skills or confidence to attempt it and go for the lomg hul with it, which is what required and using giant pull-ups is just easier.

Everyone has to decide for themselves when their child might be able to manage. For most between 2 and 3 is very doable - you might need a couple of tries,mbut that's fine. Delaying when a child can do it doesn't seem to benefit them or others who might look after them.

I agree that some of the older generation are unrealistic about being potty trained by 1
Indeed - my mum still swears blind that I was potty training at 6 months!!!!
Bless her!

I also remember pooing in my knickers as a child and hiding it in my sock drawer so my Mum didn’t find out. I’m really glad my son didn’t have to feel ashamed like I did.

I am one of the lucky ones, tried it with dd at 2.5, purely because I was signed off work for a month and thought it might be a good opportunity. I was absolutely dreading it, but four days of pain and then it just clicked with her. She was dry at night two weeks later (bit of a shock as I was prepared for her not to be dry at night for years).

That was a year ago, and we've literally had two instances of wetting the bed, and one of wetting herself since. But maybe my friends and I are odd, but we just don't talk about stuff like this, or compare our kids to each other. I have, hand on heart, never ever discussed/bragged about her ability to sleep well, how easy she was as a two year old, or how quickly she was dry. We have more interesting things to talk about. I do know that one friend has two NT DS aged 8 and 6 who are not dry at night, but only because she told me, and apparently it runs in her husband's side of the family so she's not particularly stressed about it.

I am under absolutely no illusions that it's anything I've done, we've just been extremely lucky. I'm sure if we were able to have another child, my experience would probably be the polar opposite.

Every single child is individual and unique, and it is just not worth worrying about until they are maybe pushing four, at which point it might be worth mentioning to your GP if you're making no progress at all. I can highly recommend reading 'Oh Crap' as well, the author makes some interesting points, and it removed a lot of the stress for me.

Genuine question for those who've mentioned children being "potty trained" by 12 months; how does that work if the child can't walk or talk by then? Or is my definition of being potty trained (being able to take themselves to the potty or loo when they need to when home or in nursery, communicating to adult that they need to be taken when out and about) just very different?

I remember my Nan shouting at me when she discovered that I wasn't potty training my 9 month old.

She's completely batshit and mad as a box of frogs, so says it all really!!

I was told by a physiotherapist that once a child can walk easily, that means they have active control over their pelvic muscles and should be able to control their bladder. So maybe this accounts for 12 month dry kids. So that would be 3 of mine. My slower two funnily enough didn’t walk until 16-18 months and we beyond 3 before toilet training so although the timelines aren’t the same, it does make some kind of sense physically if not neurologically.

I think around the 2nd birthday used to be normal. I remember when I had my eldest people started to ask around a year if he was potty trained. No he wasn't, but he was at age 2 (in the day).The second was a few months older. Waiting until they were 3 , or alternatively waiting until they were 'ready' would have been seen as very strange.
Training when they are young does require a certain amount of prompting and supervision, with the odd accident, in my experience.
I believe it's pullups that have made the difference. I put both my kids straight into underpants as pullups didn't exist, and tbh, I'd do it exactly the same way again if I was having a baby now.

They are all different and being out of nappies doesn’t have anything to do with parenting necessarily. I’ve had one who wasn’t in pants until 4.5 and another who was sorted day and night at 2 yrs and 3 months. Nothing I did differently.

"Mrsfrumble

Genuine question for those who've mentioned children being "potty trained" by 12 months; how does that work if the child can't walk or talk by then? Or is my definition of being potty trained (being able to take themselves to the potty or loo when they need to when home or in nursery, communicating to adult that they need to be taken when out and about) just very different?"

I would say your definition of communication is maybe different. A 12 months old may be perfectly able to communicate his need to go to the toilet. But yes he may not be able to be fully independent.
My definition of potty trained is more around having control of his bladder/bowel movements and being able to communicate this with adults effectively.

As for the pp re being 'ready' - I think realistically nowadays we first get babies used to nappies (and in a way they forget some of their 'instincts' re not soiling themselves) and then we have to reverse this to some extent.

I didn't even start thinking about toilet training until my DS was 2 1/2yo.
Started Christmas just gone, was pretty damn good by 4th day and fully trained in just under two weeks. Some people thought I should have started way earlier (one friend said I should have started 'introducing weeing on the potty' at 1yo!) Some people told me he wouldn't be ready because he's a boy and I should wait til after his third birthday (which is this month). I waited until he started indicating he was ready like coming to tell me when he's done a poo in his nappy etc but I think it helped that his friend from nursery has just been trained so he was aware that his friend kept running off to the toilet and he wanted to do that too.

As oblada explained, the year old experience was out of nappies, able to communicate that bathroom was needed. It's not an eloquent "do please excuse me for I must pee but fear not, I shall return", more dancing around, so recognising the urge, wandering or communicating they want to go in the direction of bathrooms.

It's not a measure of parenting or the intelligence of the child, it's just luck of the draw and circumstances.

As for people telling you that you should do something or should have done something, never listen! Helpful people will share stories, answer questions and listen to your experiences, but telling you what you should do, no no no. It is all good in the end and every child is different and will get there, do what feels best and works!

On a slightly different battle, a friend of mine had her first child, who by the time he could crawl, not walk, crawl, put himself to bed at 7pm and slept for at least 12 hours. He found his blanket, crawled to the sofa and looked around for someone to put him there and then he feel asleep. Literally had to be seen to be believed. Her second child, the universe got its revenge. Same parent, same genes, same everything, the child literally did not sleep through the night for four years. Or for much more than an hour or so at a time and it was a battle every, single, night. Luck of the draw:)

We can choose to spend time listening to our kids' needs from early on, recognising the signs, introducing the toilet early on etc I read a bit on elimination communication and It was very interesting

I did EC with DS1, he had a potty from the moment he could sit up. Perhaps that contributed to him figuring out poos well before wees (but still at gone 3.. and only in the living room in front of the TV ) - he just couldn't get wees though - he got distracted and didn't realise until too late (and actually, given any upheaval - moving house, starting school, his poos go a bit wrong, even to this day!). I remember having some success using a timer going off every 30 mins, but play group were horrified at that - that he wouldn't learn the feeling for himself. DS1 has always needed a bit of a push to do knew things though - we had to 'lose' his toilet seat when he was still trying to squeeze a 6 year old bum onto a 3 year old sized seat! (he's dyspraxic though - he genuinely found it really hard to balance on a toilet seat).

I'm being entirely honest about DS2 though - he just announced he wasn't wearing nappies any more (first day, and then night) and sorted himself out! We just had to help with wiping because his arms were too short to reach his bum!

crunchymint, I've been in childcare for 25 years never yet had a child saying No because they were 30 months or 36 months (unless SEN), every child who has been this age bar 2 who had bowel complications has been dry within 5 days barring an odd accident when unwell and about 70% dry at night at the same time.
The ones who's parents have insisted on earlier pre indicator training have taken weeks and numerous accidents tears etc.

jannier I too have been in childcare and had kids toilet trained younger quickly. But I started working with kids 40 years ago when we did toilet train younger, and some learned very very quickly.
BUT some parents are saying here that they have tried to toilet train at 3 years old plus, and have really struggled on for months and months. So I was responding to their experiences.

DougFargo Thu
"Because up to abut 30 years ago pretty much every child that ever lived was toilet trained by about that age."

Im 56 and can find loads of photos of myself family friends etc. still obviously wearing nappies well past 18 months. I do remember my aunt who was a trained nanny sitting her charges on the potty at the table for meals and play times and seeing children scooting around floors on potties in clinics but I'm not sure that that type of physical placing on potties is any different to catching it in a nappy. I also remember loads of tears and accidents at school from my friends and a bucket of sand in the corner for throwing on accidents.
A child needs to be dry for at least and hour and to be able to communicate a need most 18 months olds if asked will have you done a pooh will say yes or no but it has no relation to what you find in a nappy. Obviously sometimes they are right by pure coincidence.

2 and a half here - was the target for everyone at the time - pre-school would only take them if they were out of nappies. And pre-school age was 2y7m.

I did both mine when they were almost three. I knew they could fully grasp the concept of telling me BEFORE they needed to go. It took them both less than a week and one of them ditched the potty on day two and used the toilet instead.

Until recently, pre schools required children to be toilet trained before they started - usually the term after they were 3, when their free hours kicked in. This did incentivise parents to get on with it.

In the last few years, it became illegal to insist of being toilet trained and since then lots more children are not when they start pre school and even school. Children themselves have not changed, not has their ability to be toilet trained, but parental expectations do seem to have shifted - not everyone's - most people still seem to aim to be done by 3 - perhaps more now closer to 3 than 2, but significant numbers don't seem to try until well after 3 or 4 now - and no SEN. No one is saying children with SEN should be trained by any particular age.

What I don't really understand is why people with children without SEN let their child get to nearly 4 or over 4 without trying to train them, and keep sending them to nursery or pre school or even school for the staff to change their pooey nappies - just seems a bit selfish to me in terms of both the child sitting in poo and the staff having to deal with it. I do think there is some laziness on the part of some parents, who perhaps just can't face it or hope the childcare provider will undertake the task if they don't. And sorry to say, but when children start school without being toilet trained and there aren't any SEN, it's a big indicator to schools that the family are likely to be those who haven't read much to their kids and who are likely to score poorly on the baseline tests and struggle to reach a 'good level of achievement' in the foundation stage measures. I think there is a big difference between not having Done potty training as they turn 3 and not having attempted it as they reach 4 and even older and start school.

I do think there's been a bit of a shift in what's meant by toilet/potty trained too. It seems in the past, this term was often used to describe children who were doing most of their wees and poos on a potty or toilet even if it was more by dint of being put on one a lot than anything else. Whereas now, the term only really means a child who knows when they want to go and goes.

A lot of us wouldn't accept that a child who is being put on a potty or toilet regularly rather than initiating it themselves is actually trained, even if they are doing most of their toileting on there. It's now about the child's intention as well, whereas I think a few decades ago it was more of a description of where the toileting was taking place. That of course included children who were fully able to initiate independently themselves, but also some who weren't.

For those saying children without sen have lazy parents then please don’t. My 8 year old is still in pull ups at school. SEN has been ruled out (for now). Mainstream child who is more than able. Is toilet trained and can use them at home and on public but NOT in school. I’d love one of you experts to come for a week to her school and get her on the toilet. Believe me, everyone we can think of has tried. And this weeks she has yet another UTI because she wears pads for school and no will help to change and clean her so she has to do it herself and does so badly after sitting on it for too long as she won’t request to go and get changed. Clinical psychologist, educational psychologist, occupational therapist, school continence nurse, play therapist, nursery teacher, assistants etc have all tried. They also say she doesn’t rock any sen boxes either.