To not find middle class ‘socialists’ laughing at the poor and uneducated very funny.

[Mightymucks]

I’m currently a mature student and am on a lot of FB pages related to my Uni. I need to be on there for news, but an awful lot of the content seems to be middle class self proclaimed socialists laughing at jokes poking fun at the thick unwashed masses who might have the temerity not to slavishly agree with them on every issue.

Take this morning. One of them posted a joke about an imaginary rabid Brexiteer called ‘Sharon from Croydon’ who voted for Brexit ‘because she thinks brown neurosurgeons are stealing jobs she would have been qualified for if she hadn’t dropped out of her hair and beauty NVQ’. Cue much hilarity from these students and lots of comments about ‘thick northerners’ whose capability of engaging with the political process doesn’t extend beyond looking at one slogan on a bus.

I called him ‘a snob’ and he responded that he was ‘calling out racism’ despite the fact that ‘Sharon’ is fictional and therefore doesn’t need calling out. It was just a series of lazy stereotypes designed to stoke predjudice and exactly the thing socialism is supposed to be explicitly against?

A symptom of this in a ward by the Uni near me Labour has actually removed a local candidate with long standing Labour links and huge respect from locals because he is
‘too working class’ for the students to vote for and replaced him with a history academic from out of town.

I should point out that in my working class northern area I don’t know a single person who isn’t aware that Marxism and socialism represents the working classes and the poor and uneducated. But apparently a University education doesn’t extend to teaching that these days.

I also know it isn’t universal in Labour because I had a fantastic female middle aged canvasser around this weekend who was totally clued up on issues of local concern like school funding and libraries and actually convinced me to vote for them.

But AIBU to hate these middle class millennial fuckwits who pretend they’re socialists but are actually massive fucking crashing snobs?

Leaving the EU is throwing the baby out with bath water. Moving away from globalisation and consumerist mind set cannot be done overnight. Other EU countries manage to be less right wing economically than the UK. Clearly the free market does not know best.

So hold on, your for Neoliberal principles when it suits, JC admits that to enact his socialist policies he needs us to leave the EU, if you think you can put the genie of Globalisation and Consumerism back in the bottle then please go through the mental gymnastics and demonstrate how, obviously we cannot cope with another 30 years of neoliberalism so I expect your solutions will be quicker whilst getting all the other 28 countries to go along?

If you came onto this thread without the partisan right/left wing glasses then you wouldn't have inadvertently proved the OP's point.

TBH, if you think the Tories and Brexit is going to help the working classes you deserve to be patrionized. I’m wc btw.

TBH, if you think Labour and Brexit is going to help the working classes you deserve to be patronized, couldn't care less about your working class credentials, but for what it's worth, i grew up working class.

And you are still ignoring the elephant in the room, JC himself has said to help the working class, we need to leave the EU, that is the part where your mental gymnastics and whataboutism comes out.

Turns out middle class people aren't allowed to vote labour

and that amnesty lady kids go to private school

Her son sat the Eton pre-test no less. Either he didn't get in or his mother decided against it in favour of Dulwich.

I don’t agree with Brexit, what Corbyn thinks is irrelevant. I actually suspect Brexit wont happen.

The op was about nasty lefties making fun of working class people when history tells us the division and bigotry usually comes from the right. Right wing economics hurt the working classes as will brexit. The impact assessments show this.

If you are genuinely concerned about the working classes then you are barking up the wrong tree.

The EU is not perfect but thanks to the right selling off the family silver in the 80s the UK does not have the clout to go it alone. Nor is it wise to cut ties with our closest neighbors

If we want to talk about hypocrisy how about Farage and his kids German passport. Wonder if they’ll enjoy overseas education and free movement when they are older? Working class Brexit voters kids will be filling out forms for a weeks holiday in Tenerife

"Mature students are perhaps quicker to take offence - just as they are quicker to take notes in lectures. Lol "

Do teaching assistants, aka Rosewhitetips, generally have much to do with mature students? Hmm

@GhostofFrankGrimes
If we want to talk about hypocrisy how about Farage and his kids German passport.

How dare kids have a passport for the birth country of one of their parents
There is nothing to stop those in the same position doing the same...

Wouldn't 'Sharon from Croydon' be a thick southerner as opposed to a thick northerner?

Farage the great patriot who has rarely had a good word to say about the EU. Having a passport of an Eu member state is going to be far more beneficial than a French made blue Brexit passport. Everyone knows this.

I don’t agree with Brexit, what Corbyn thinks is irrelevant. I actually suspect Brexit wont happen.

Corbyn isn't irrelevant until he is no longer head of the opposition, to try and keep repeating it doesn't make it true.

If you believe Brexit won't happen, then, you are already tying yourself up in knots as you have to accept Neoliberal policies and are quite happy/hoping to carry them on.

The op was about nasty lefties making fun of working class people when history tells us the division and bigotry usually comes from the right. Right wing economics hurt the working classes as will brexit. The impact assessments show this.

No, the OP was talking about a specific subset of "nasty lefties", the term Champaign Socialism is term that Corbyn and Momentum recognise and want rid of, something you should be aware of.

If you are genuinely concerned about the working classes then you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not, I'm asking you to clarify your position other than "but the evil tories/right wing"

The EU is not perfect but thanks to the right selling off the family silver in the 80s the UK does not have the clout to go it alone. Nor is it wise to cut ties with our closest neighbors

Again, focusing blame on the right wing whilst accusing others of divide and rule is ironic, the fact you say no one is standing up for the working class and then try and paint the EU as a right/left issue does show you aren't as astute as you think you are.

If we want to talk about hypocrisy how about Farage and his kids German passport.

If we want to talk about hypocrisy answer how you can be pro corbyn and pro remain..

@GhostofFrankGrimes

So? He doesn’t have one, his kids, who are entitled to have one, do.

If we want to talk about hypocrisy answer how you can be pro corbyn and pro remain..

Remarkably, I do not have to agree with Corbyn on every issue. I do not agree with Denis Skinner or Liam Fox on Brexit. Brexit is a disaster for the UK.

Again, focusing blame on the right wing whilst accusing others of divide and rule is ironic, the fact you say no one is standing up for the working class and then try and paint the EU as a right/left issue does show you aren't as astute as you think you are.

The Tories were in government for 18 years during one of Britain's most turbulent post war periods. A period when working class communities were decimated by Tory policies. A period when Thatcher ushered in neo liberal, globalised economics. You cannot air brush this out of history.

Today, people who would have supported such policies cry crocodile tears for the plight of the "left behind".

Brexit happened because of the right. It happened because of John Major's "bastards". It was championed by right wing politcians like Farage, Fox etc. Most Tories supported EU membership! In this country EU membership is predominantly a right wing issue - it was right wingers making the majority of the noise 40 years ago and they are still making (moaning) all of the noise today!

The implementation of Brexit is not a right/left issue, it just utter folly. It'll be the working classes - the ones who supported Brexit - egged on by people like Farage who will be thrown under a bus. Again.

So? He doesn’t have one, his kids, who are entitled to have one, do.

Yes, I know this and just wonder why he never spoke about the benefits of EU member states passport during the referendum? I'm sure his kids will enjoy the benefits.

Turns out middle class people aren't allowed to vote labour hmm

No one is saying that, the OP is about a specific subset of middle class, as is evident from this thread and many others.

There is a subset of middle class that like to pretend they support the WC until they vote the wrong way in a GE/Brexit, then they are thick uneducated fools that are susceptible to propaganda that they themselves are above (whilst only reading the likes of Guardian and Canary), its a recognised issue hence why Corbyn came to power as all political parties was only distinct by the colour tie they was wearing for the past couple of decades.

It's that subset of middle class that need to come to terms with this and decide if they do stand with the working class rather than just pretending they do, or accept they are neoliberal in their outlook and have fucked them over.

Have sociologists recognised this subset of middle class folk?

How should the middle classes show solidarity with the working classes? Isn't this patronizing in itself?

I think with Brexit, that working class and middle class remainers are simply trying to point out that leaving the EU will be utterly shit for the working classes. The assessment show leave voting areas will be hit the hardest. This seems to make leavers fly into a rage because it suggests leavers have voted, inadvertently to fuck themselves over. That is the reality, embarassing, patronizing or otherwise.

Remarkably, I do not have to agree with Corbyn on every issue. I do not agree with Denis Skinner or Liam Fox on Brexit. Brexit is a disaster for the UK.

If I hadn't seen you all over the boards saying that any vote for conservative is justifying everything they do then I would give you more credence, but what do you agree with then, you agree with helping the working class, yet disagree with JC anti EU/FOM stance?

The working class generally voted to leave the EU and still vote labour, are they uneducated when it comes to terms with EU but then stopped reading the daily mail when GE comes round?

The Tories were in government for 18 years during one of Britain's most turbulent post war periods. A period when working class communities were decimated by Tory policies. A period when Thatcher ushered in neo liberal, globalised economics. You cannot air brush this out of history.

Just the same as you cannot airbrush out the 13 years of labour, many of the problems we face today are firmly put on their shoulders, the drift from the working class has been continuous across the globe because of globalisation, you either openly accept some of neoliberal principles, being a supporter of JC and still thinking your being a champion of the working class by being pro EU are a complete opposite.

Brexit happened because of the right. It happened because of John Major's "bastards". It was championed by right wing politcians like Farage, Fox etc. Most Tories supported EU membership! In this country EU membership is predominantly a right wing issue - it was right wingers making the majority of the noise 40 years ago and they are still making (moaning) all of the noise today!

The referendum would have had to happen by default in a few years anyway, and every government for the past couple of decades have ran on a policy of having one.

You are still trying to paint it as left/right, not only ignoring the cross party consensus of leave/remain but still blindly ignoring JC's stance on the subject.

@GhostofFrankGrimes

Yes, I know this and just wonder why he never spoke about the benefits of EU member states passport during the referendum?

Because it would be like someone from the Remain side speaking about the benefits of leaving the EU.

I'm sure his kids will enjoy the benefits.

You may think you're sure but either way, they were applied for and got them. As said, people in the same position can do the same. Not really seeing your argument on this particular issue.

Have sociologists recognised this subset of middle class folk?

Have sociologists recognised this subset of working class who vote against their own self interest?

We could pretend that "champaign socialism" is an obscure term and ignore that Corbyn and Momentum rose to power on a promise of getting getting rid of those with that "obscure" label who had ruined the true spirit of labour, but I sense you will get into mental gymnastics the same as you are trying not to answer a direct question of how you can be pro corbyn and pro remain..

The working class generally voted to leave the EU and still vote labour, are they uneducated when it comes to terms with EU but then stopped reading the daily mail when GE comes round?

I think we are all alittle "uneducated" when it comes to the EU. Some more than others. Not to mention the interference and down right lies muddying the waters.

Just the same as you cannot airbrush out the 13 years of labour

New Labour and traditional Labour are completely different beasts.

either openly accept some of neoliberal principles, being a supporter of JC and still thinking your being a champion of the working class by being pro EU are a complete opposite.

You are assuming anyone - Corbyn or otherwise can eradicate neo liberalism over night. That is not possible. Do you expect the Tories to adopt socialist policies after Brexit to appease the working classes?

You are still trying to paint it as left/right, not only ignoring the cross party consensus of leave/remain but still blindly ignoring JC's stance on the subject.

I have not ignored this. Brexit was a right wing issue. I do not agree with Labour or Tory leavers. Given Davies' latest performance today I am not convinced Brexit will happen. A year ago I was.

Because it would be like someone from the Remain side speaking about the benefits of leaving the EU.

I'm still waiting to hear these benefits, not even leavers can tell me.

You may think you're sure but either way, they were applied for and got them. As said, people in the same position can do the same. Not really seeing your argument on this particular issue.

Man waves blue passport that leaves Brits with less rights whilst his own kids take passport from a country affliated with a institution said man has been rallying against for years. A passport that gives more rights than blue passport. No, nothing to see here.

We could pretend that "champaign socialism" is an obscure term and ignore that Corbyn and Momentum rose to power on a promise of getting getting rid of those with that "obscure" label who had ruined the true spirit of labour, but I sense you will get into mental gymnastics the same as you are trying not to answer a direct question of how you can be pro corbyn and pro remain..

What rot. Corbyn is the Labour of Attlee, Bevan, Benn. The"true spirit" of Labour.

The mental gymnastics is in your mind. You can support a party and not agree with absolutely every policy. You overlook the fact that the Tory cabinet is split on Brexit!

The neurosurgeon joke made me laugh. Brexit isn't generally very funny, so in the great scheme of things a little gallows humour isn't so bad. I'm beyond caring about whether snobbery is a deadly sin or not.

They are cunts
Avoid the social media pages they follow

I think we are all alittle "uneducated" when it comes to the EU. Some more than others. Not to mention the interference and down right lies muddying the waters.

I suppose those that voted opposite to you are in the more category, if you want to talk about "interference" then you are on dodgy ground thinking it was just one way.

New Labour and traditional Labour are completely different beasts.

Now that is whitewashing...

You are assuming anyone - Corbyn or otherwise can eradicate neo liberalism over night. That is not possible. Do you expect the Tories to adopt socialist policies after Brexit to appease the working classes?

No, you are the one coming here championing the working class suggesting that if it wasn't for the tories we would not be in this issue, whilst ignoring many factors of the working class voting brexit and still voting labour, and again JC's stance on being anti eu and FOM, shouting from the sidelines is all you are offering at this point.

I have not ignored this. Brexit was a right wing issue. I do not agree with Labour or Tory leavers. Given Davies' latest performance today I am not convinced Brexit will happen. A year ago I was.

Corbyn's stance alone, which you continue to ignore shows that's not the case, but a referendum would have been mandatory in a couple of years anyway as I'm sure you are aware.

The OP was about a section of the left who pride themselves on apparently supporting the working class until they vote differently, you have barged in with partisan glasses and have unironically proved their point, even more so by bringing up your working class credentials.