To not find middle class ‘socialists’ laughing at the poor and uneducated very funny.

[Mightymucks]

I’m currently a mature student and am on a lot of FB pages related to my Uni. I need to be on there for news, but an awful lot of the content seems to be middle class self proclaimed socialists laughing at jokes poking fun at the thick unwashed masses who might have the temerity not to slavishly agree with them on every issue.

Take this morning. One of them posted a joke about an imaginary rabid Brexiteer called ‘Sharon from Croydon’ who voted for Brexit ‘because she thinks brown neurosurgeons are stealing jobs she would have been qualified for if she hadn’t dropped out of her hair and beauty NVQ’. Cue much hilarity from these students and lots of comments about ‘thick northerners’ whose capability of engaging with the political process doesn’t extend beyond looking at one slogan on a bus.

I called him ‘a snob’ and he responded that he was ‘calling out racism’ despite the fact that ‘Sharon’ is fictional and therefore doesn’t need calling out. It was just a series of lazy stereotypes designed to stoke predjudice and exactly the thing socialism is supposed to be explicitly against?

A symptom of this in a ward by the Uni near me Labour has actually removed a local candidate with long standing Labour links and huge respect from locals because he is
‘too working class’ for the students to vote for and replaced him with a history academic from out of town.

I should point out that in my working class northern area I don’t know a single person who isn’t aware that Marxism and socialism represents the working classes and the poor and uneducated. But apparently a University education doesn’t extend to teaching that these days.

I also know it isn’t universal in Labour because I had a fantastic female middle aged canvasser around this weekend who was totally clued up on issues of local concern like school funding and libraries and actually convinced me to vote for them.

But AIBU to hate these middle class millennial fuckwits who pretend they’re socialists but are actually massive fucking crashing snobs?

That's how it works surely, stereotypes of a particular type of supporter, like people who want the ban on fox-hunting overturned are always portrayed as wealthy, braying types.

But they’re not portrayed like that by pro-hunting groups are they? You’re not supposed to satirise people on the same side as you. It kind of defeats the point.

G K Chesterton wrote 'The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.'
I agree with him.

I don't mind if people are working class or middle class (whatever that means) or stupid or clever or rich or poor. It does bother me if they voted for brexit though.

CheeseyToast The young are horrifically arrogant.

Oh ffs this is a thread about stereotyping and how lay and judgmental it is.

Thing is I think mightymucks is being a bit judgmental about milennials too.

*lazy

I think Sharon from Croydon and her ilk are fair game.
Though as a northerner I object to people like that being characterised as ‘Northern’. We have our share, but places like Cornwall voted Brexit too!

So, are you only offended by who posted it, and not by what was posted?

Why are you so offended OP?
Did you vote brexit?

If so... shame on you!

You’re not supposed to satirise people on the same side as you

Are they not remainers though? They are satirising leave voters so not on the same side.

YANBU, and it's not just millennials, and not just "socialists".

All groups than focus on a particular "ism" seem to have an element that throw others under the bus. As if it's ok to be sexist, classist, racist, or whatever, as long as you're defending one of the other groups. Intriguingly, "socialists" (IME) seem to definitely focus on race at the expense of class, which is odd - if anything you'd expect it to be the other way around (not that that would be ok either!).

Are they not remainers though? They are satirising leave voters so not on the same side

But they’re also socialists. Yet as Remainers, they choose to portray Brexiteers in the worst possible way they can think of which to them is a thick knuckle dragging working class person with few qualifications. Apart from the fact that is wrong (ABC1s tended to vote remain, but many voted for Brexit, plus although more C2DEs voted for Brexit, many voted Remain) it’s prejudiced and it’s not the sort of thing socialists should be doing regardless of whether or not they supported Brexit or Remain.

What they all said.

young

satire

you're one to talk

sharon

all of it

YANBU at all. I have a problem with a certain type of Brexit voter - because there is a substantial number out there who are genuine xenophobes - but I take each person as I find them. I have friends who voted Leave, I have friends who voted Remain, I have friends across the political spectrum and we all respect each other's views and differences.

Why are you so offended OP?
Did you vote brexit?

If so... shame on you!

I literally have contempt for you seeping out of every pore because you’re daft enough to reduce the OP to ‘must have voted Brexit then’.

You are definitely one of them.

Well iI wasn’t aware that Croydon was in the north of England....
Yes it was full of stereotypes and unfortunately those stereotypes are still going strong.
Both to say that WC people are all thick
That people from the north of England are thick

As for not looking further than one slogan on a bus... I suspect those students haven’t either to be honest. They just chose another type of ‘bus’ (aka deciding on very limited information).

They're a bit young to be millennials if they're at university.

But you're right. The "Sharon from Croydon" joke is classist and disablist; two forms of bigotry that seem almost as acceptable on the left - albeit probably more the centre-left - as on the right, sometimes.

And it is also terrible strategy that loses votes, as pps have said. Sometimes I think people like them know perfectly well that it does, and know the consequences for the poor of left-wing parties losing, but just don't care. Because they think the gratification they get from sneering at people they disagree with is more important than whether other people live or die.

No-one like that has any business being in politics, but most parties are infested with such people.

I’m aware where Croydon is thanks. Grew up near there. The conversation moved on and the ‘thick northerners’ comment actually applied to people from Sunderland IIRC.

And that’s not a satire.
That’s piling up judgemental ideas based on reconceived ideas about people, whether it’s class or where they are coming from.

If they had wanted to ridicule or use satire brexiters, they wouldn’t have mentioned either the WC or the north of England.

YANBU. Many people want the kudos of being seen as left wing or progressive without wanting to have to actually be left wing.

Errr OP I wasn’t talking about you but about them??

Everyone gets satirised and that's fair enough. Harry Enfield for example took the piss out of Wayne and Waynetta Slob and posh upper class types, both were funny. Catherine Tate likewise.

But I do think it's hypocritical of middle-class socialist bleeding heart types to be mindless snobs. A former friend of mine was always being overtly lefty, going on about articles she'd read in the New Statesman, blah blah. But then openly sneered at "chavs" and even taught her DC to laugh at "chav clothes" and stuff like that. I was - I mean be an outrageous snob about poor poeple if you want, but how can you claim to be a socialist as well?

Don't blame millennial's. The left in this country have always been terrible snobs. Have you ever read any George Orwell?

What are Labours current priorities? Free university education but cuts to welfare/disability benefits remain as they are. That shows utter contempt for their power base - many of who have a deep rooted cultural hatred of the Tory party and could never vote for them.

Identity politics has completely replaced class based analysis. It allows a middle class 'queer' person to claim they experience inequality of the same degree as a white laborer or care worker. Everyone deserves respect from society but IMO it becomes a zero sum game of who has the most indices of oppression. Any working class person who isn't the right sort of working class person (for example voted Brexit) is viewed as bad as Hitler. They''ve hidden their privilege with ID politics which is why they'd rather spend their time enforcing correct gender pronouns than campaigning for a living wage.

They've forgotten about their class based privilege and the luxury that wealth and education affords you.

I prefer the analogy of shrodingers immigrant. The one that is both stealing your benefits and your job at the same time.

OP I totally get you and it isn't right but at the same time, I don't think it's exclusive to young people now. It's always been the case that the younger generation often see the world more black and white than you do as you get older. Sometimes this is a good thing and it can be a positive catalyst of change. Sometimes I think there is a lack of understanding about the subtleties and greyness that surrounds most issues.

Now that I am older (50s) I definitely think differently than I did back in my youth. I don't have any affiliations with any political parties now and really have no one left to vote for. I'm unsure if that is because of the way the world is or if it's just how you get as you get older. The passion and absoluteness is gone and replacement with a more pragmatic outlook for me anyway.

I have teens just about to start uni. I look at them as excited puppies, every idea seems new to them, they get enthusiastic about stuff that I feel I've seen it all before. Sometimes their youth and idealism should be celebrated, sometimes they need called to heel, and sometimes they need crated for a few hours until they calm down and come to their senses... :o

YANBU
I don't think the stereotypical trendy Islington elite care about the working class at all. Its not about money, is intellectual snobbery.

They see working class and poorer people as people who need to be guided and governed rather than listened to. Hence the shock over the Brexit vote.

I agree op. To a certain type of leftist the WC are trash....except if they're an immigrant or an ethnic minority. The working class are fair game. At one point it was noble to be wc, then we had Matt Lucas dressed as a 'chav' on prime time national TV....on the BBC no less, for everyone to laugh at.

Race is a huge societal issue in the US, and is here to but not so much....Class is a huge issue here imo. Abolish all the private schools and behead the queen I say.