#AD

[MintyT]

I don't know about you, but since the instamums posts I have really noticed the #AD on posts, and to be honest I had no idea I was so gullible. I loved the threads regards instamums and really think MN made a small change, well done us

Yeah, I think it's pretty outrageous that Natasha and Clemmie (and the 12 others on the #dearmumsnet Instagram hashtag!) have decided that, because people don't always fawn about them on here, they are going to paint MN as this 'dark' cesspit of unmoderated hatred. It's total bollocks. I have been on MN for a loooooooooonnggg time, and I was reading those posts the other day, thinking, 'have I missed something huge here, I don't recognise this place they are talking about?'

I have read the #dearmumsnet thread on here and seen certain well loved posters mentioned, and it actually made me really cross that certain people on Instagram have decided to go after MN in this way, because it suits their agenda. Horrible.

The big issue for most of the Instamums is now one of trust. The Tupperware post may well have been just a bit of a moan about the lack of plastic storage in the house (we have all been there) but the past blagging means that some followers now have a suspicion that this will lead to a gift or an ad, or that there is an ulterior motive behind a campaign. The past pattern of sneaky behaviour and concealed adverts means that many people just don't trust what they see any more on Instagram and the bloggers have to over-engineer what they post to try to regain that trust. I don't know how a business comes back from that, because it's very hard to regain trust once you have lost it.

In the time it takes to do an instastory, you could have bought 50 tupperwear boxes online so I think it would fair to assume it's a pitch for a freebie

On mumsnet no one is paid on these posts, they are points of view from real people, some agree, some disagree. There isn't a pecking order with some being paid for their post or comment.
These 'instamummies' have made Instagram their job. Every post has an angle, even if it's the post trying to be genuinely them, to re-engage. Why screenshot Tupperware and a store and bother to post it to stories? (Btw Asda have a lovely range of rainbow Tupperware that's a lot cheaper). I thought Telford's post was good till the end, I can only imagine that having to #ad everything has actually really changed their influencing power and they are all hacked off.

Yes, the thing is, if you just wanted to do an 'ach, we've all been there' type post, you would just post about the mismatching tupperware and lids thing.

The specifically mention of Lakeland and the screenshot of the website does very much change the feel of that post!

Sat on the train alone, screenshotting and Storying, just click add to basket and purchase! It's bizarre! Even a 'just ordered these because they are pretty'!! Would be fine...

I have NO problem with screenshotting of stories because this is where Instagrammers are now turning to to post the blags, the sneaky ads and their real opinions, instead of the sanitised version for the 'squares'. They know that comments on the stories don't appear publicly and they know the stories disappear into the ether so they can get away with more on there. Stories are the Insta equivalent of Facebook dark ads - not a good thing.

Stories are where all the #gifted stuff gets shared. It's only when you see them, pretty much daily getting free stuff, that you realise the extent of it all being just a business. 'Yes but it's a business built on SISTERHOOD' - come on ladies, this is capitalism we're talking about here. Thatcher would be so proud of you.

Actually, a majority of the mum-centred businesses were started and built on the platform of sisterhood, let's be accurate. Women/mums wanted a way to make money after having kids, without having to race back to the office, so they made a network of other mums and writing about it all, and creating businesses with that in mind. It's just that some women became more financially successful, and it became more lucrative for some than others. Setting the whole #ad debate aside, which is an important point, there's nothing wrong with sharing stuff with other mums/followers because you like it.

I'm not being naive, I think the whole sponsored/not sponsored disclosure is very important obvs, but sometimes things don't have to be sponsored for them to share it on IG. Just because someone has a big following, you can hold back from being cynical about all of it, no? I share makeup stuff that I like, some gifted some not, but because I don't have 50k followers, people tend to trust that more, I would assume. If I had that many followers, there would be more people questioning my motives, which isn't really fair, I think. It's not down to how many followers, it's down to the person.

It's easy to use the 'yes but they were #pregnantthenscrewed' explanation but the fact of the matter is that a lot of these women saw an opportunity to make a lot of money then forged ahead with it without thinking of the wider complications. Of course questions would be asked about them using images of their children to make money. Of course they have to declare ads and gifts like any other self employed person. Of course this will all be discussed publicly if they become successful.

They could've, should've thought that through thoroughly before jumping on the gravy train. And I honestly don't think some of them did. They saw what other women were getting and wanted a piece of it for themselves, in a consequence free environment.

Since when was the notion of sisterhood centred around making money? Am I missing something?

Um, did you read what I said? Let me type it again:

‘Actually, a majority of the mum-centred businesses were started and built on the platform of sisterhood’

I didn’t say that the notion of sisterhood was started around making money, that doesn’t make any sense.

The crux is MOD and NB want and need Mumsnet to be wholly and unquestionably Team Instamama and they're resentful this isn't happening. Mumsnet users represent their core demographic. Mumsnet threads make the papers.

A quick google shows several articles about Instamums being slammed on Mumsnet in Sep 2017 for shameless self promotion.

Mumsnet users in general are sharp and questioning and yes, wittily mocking when there is good reason to, and MOD and NB don't like it. They want us to fawn unconditionally. We don't. And when we don't they report - which MOD has admitted to doing.

MN removes stuff they agree is against talk guidelines but they are actually v generous in this. . Just look at the posts on this thread that have been removed. In the one of mine that was, I was talking about a v well known Instamum and called out how there was a discrepancy btw her pretence that she was given something as an act of love by her OH and the fact it was gifted. I said, by using a different metaphor, that she wasn't the brightest bulb. Other posts removed were joking about the effects of NB sitting on the steps for ages.

It's cool that they don't like our satire and scorn. It's not cool that they want to shame Mumsnet into shutting down any sharp questioning of the ways they publicly market and monetise products, themselves and their families.

NB even said on her post that she felt MN should remove anonymity. How batshit is that. Completely self-serving batshit, that's what. Nevermind that this anonymity allows vulnerable women to question whether they're being abused or ask v personal health questions, or to open up about how low they feel. No, it's all about the Instamums.

I don't see why I should have to give up my anonymity online when I have private SM profiles and make absolutely no money from it. I'm not a public figure profiting from others. I would absolutely say all of the things I've said here to her outright on Instagram (and who knows, maybe I already have...)

Actually that’s not what I said either, I said since when was the notion of sisterhood centred around making money. Not started. “Built on the platform of sisterhood” means making money by selling stuff to other women, let’s not try to dress it up. Like many have said, I have no problem with women centred businesses. Just do it honestly.

It's so two-faced. Use a platform of sisterhood to do good. Get a lot of followers, realise you can monetise the account and turn it into a business, change your account, dupe your followers, then when you get called out on it cry you're being bullied. But you're not, people have simply realised the truth. FOD is slightly different as he didn't start out in the same way, but his account is completely child centred. Without the children, there'd be no book deal or 800000 followers.
I had a post removed that suggested it was not actually a very nice supportive community, and rather than on mumsnet where people do air their differences, there is most likely a lot of back stabbing amongst the instamummas. You see it on some smaller accounts when they feel left out and not part of the clique. It's not overall a boosting community. I'd rather listen to the opinion of an anonymous stranger with nothing to gain, than someone looking for their next sponsorship or holiday who has a vested interest in increasing followers.

Thinking about it practically (off on a tangent) - how annoying must it be to need something fairly basic like tupperwear and not just go and get it? Instead you have to wait days to see if a PR picks up on your story and then gratefully receive whatever is sent - even if it is not exactly what you want or need. Meanwhile you are saucepanless or tupperwearless for days.

I've unfollowed all "mama bloggers" now. So my feed is only small house bloggers who only seem to do very few collaborations if any or slimming world people who are so thrilled to have been picked from obscurity to receive their free J D seasonings that they are making the ad obvious

I actually have a miele/boden etc shit list now after previous shenanigans and will not buy from them. Wondering if Lakeland will be next

It’s not even women centered, it’s parenting centred if anything. That’s why the sisterhood stuff is disingenuous to an extent. Their sisters are other mothers with a certain disposable income. Again not a problem at all. Just don’t pretend it’s all about selflessly helping and supporting.

I love style and beauty recommendations from friends and on here. I appreciate someone passing on a good tip or suggesting a great product. They do it solely because they want to, not because they have a vested financial interest.

I think the active campaigns around maternity and pregnancy discrimination do more for women than promoting an ideal where women can build a business selling gear to other mums on Instagram will ever do. These are campaigns which are focused on societal change where women can be enabled go back to the careers that they worked hard for and are, in many cases, highly skilled at. I find the argument that setting up on Instagram can give people an alternate, flexible career that they can work around their children, a bit disheartening to be honest.

Gobblin you don't have to wait to get tupperware/pots/washing machines, but getting them for free must feel so much better!

I find the argument that setting up on Instagram can give people an alternate, flexible career that they can work around their children, a bit disheartening to be honest

Yes, it's almost a little bit MLM isn't it?

The fact is, a lot of the 'biggest' influencers were already middle class well connected creative/media/journalist types who used their mates and connections to gain their following. Or they are already semi famous by other means (Susie Verrill, Giovanna Fletcher). Very few Instamums gain huge huge followings that they could make any sort of living from, from just starting from scratch and deciding to blog. The Unmumsy Mum and actually to be fair, MOD I think, are ones who fit this bill (I don't know much about MODs background) but they are fairly few and far between. (I don't really think of The Unmumsy Mum as an insta mum anyway actually, because I think most of her fame actually came from her FB page first.)

Just wading in to say I've also been disappointed by some of the accounts I follow who like the #dearmumsnet post. It's ridiculous to insinuate a huge group of women (and men) who use this forum are all vipers from a pit of hell. We all know there are some of course. I avoid them like I do nasty buggers in real life. But there are plenty on instagram too. I know because I'm on both, why the them and us?!

Given how middle class some of these instamums are, they're maybe forgetting where a large chunk of their audience may also hang out. Very tempted to unfollow but I'd miss lusting after their lovely hair and beautiful tiled floors.

It's ridiculous to insinuate a huge group of women (and men) who use this forum are all vipers from a pit of hell. We all know there are some of course. I avoid them like I do nasty buggers in real life. But there are plenty on instagram too. I know because I'm on both, why the them and us?!

Yes, this idea that you cannot use Instagram unless you have passed some kind of 'kindness' test, whereas Mumsnet is where all the horrible bitches hang out, is just laughable. There are people of all sorts on all sorts of platforms.

Yes, people are more 'up front' on Mumsnet. But this has absolutely nothing to do with who is using these sites, and everything to do with the fact that part of the Instamum brand is to 'just be kind'. In fact it's so much part of the brand that they all wear t shirts emblazoned with it! They can't all start slagging each other off because it doesn't fit with the image that they need to portray, which is that they are all best mates and no one ever says a negative word about anyone.

Of course anonymity comes into it as well, and of course discussion will be more robust when people are anonymous and have nothing to lose, than if they have a large chunk of their livelihood riding on what they say and do on Instagram. It still doesn't mean that negativity or criticism are 'trolling' or 'bullying'.

'Very tempted to unfollow but I'd miss lusting after their lovely hair and beautiful tiled floors.'

Ahhh yes, and so much truth to that, even if you're only half kidding.