Inheritance angst - shocked & angry

[hoopyloopy2]

MIL died like last year and we are just getting to grips now with the details of her estate. FIL died 13 years ago.

To cut a long story short, it’s emerged that she gave a very large amount of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) to BIL a few years’ ago after he divorced and to enable him to start his own business. DH and I have never received money from his parents - in fact we didn’t even know she had that kind of money.

It’s become clear that DH’s other brother has also received financial support over the years but nowhere near the same level. DH is certainly not more financial comfortable than the other two now or in the past - so there’s no logic as to why he/we were overlooked. Their mum did play favourites over the years, but there was no rift or issue (that we know of) that would explain why she should have skewed things in such an extreme way.

DH has confronted BIL after working all this out by going through years of bank accounts. BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point, but he hasn’t. Issue now is whether this is taken into account when dividing up the estate, DH & I think it should be as amounts to 2/3rds of her savings. MIL did not suggest it should be in her will. But it is SUCH a significant amount of money. BIL is embarrassed & defensive at being found out, and is implying DH is being nosey by going through their mum’s bank accounts in detail - ridiculously.

To put things in context, DH and I are in a financially unstable situation now. He isn’t working after being made redundant several months ago, for the 3rd time in a few years, all very stressful & difficult. I work but we cannot survive on my salary alone. DH has become disillusioned with his line of work and would dearly love the kind of financial support that BIL was given to make choices -ie start his own business or make a career change. We would never have dreamt of asking his mum to bail us out while she was alive though. But it seems BIL had no such qualms - this has shocked us both.

So are we BU to ask for this large payment to BIL to be recognised in how the estate is now divvied up? Ie that he gets a lot less as a result. I know their mum was entitled to spend her money as she liked, so there is no legal case here. I am worried that asking will cause major upsets & divisions but at the same time, it feels profoundly unfair & will fester with DH (and me) if we just let this go.

I just read the first page. there are a lot of important legal issues here and the family may need a solicitor to help with it.

As people are saying it is very imkportant and a matte rof law for the executors to find out exactly what was a gift and what was loan. The BIL seems to have said it was a loan. If that is so then that is a debt owed to the estate. It may well have been documented in the papers or letters at the time as a loan too.

Secondly if it is not a loan then it may be subject to inheritance now and the gifts to the other brother if made in the last 7 years - the executors have to find out what gifts were made in those 7 years and follow the rules. It is not being nosey to look at the bank statements. It is the law. I had to go through my father's cheque stubs even on his death. I spent 100 hours on his estate.

If the BIL is saying it was a loan then he is admitting it needs to be paid back. Does the otehr sibling also say sums given were loans or do they say they were gifts?

once it is clear which, then the loans can be deducted from the net estate and those who had any gifts in the 7 years.

If it were all gifts then that is just tough on the husband and the siblings wll have their equal shares just of what is now left.

Pleasure. I see very closely how much pain this sort of situation causes people. When often no pain or hurt was intended, because people go about their lives and the paperwork is missed. (Sometimes the pain is intended. But those situations are fairly noteworthy).

Yo ! Xenia ! I take it you are the real @Xenia as you still own the name !!!!

@hoopyloopy2
listen to Xenia
Cases like yours are her bread and butter day job
she knows her stuff more than most people

What would be the position if this was neither a loan or a gift but an investment?

Gnome
I wondered that too.

Perhaps the MIL received a benefit from BIL's business, maybe money or something else??

What stands out to me among other things is that if this was a close family...your DH would have known about the loan/money given to BIL.

My parents have given my DB money to start a business. All my siblings are aware of this.

I don't expect it to be deducted from any inheritance. They gave it to him. I've never received such an amount... I'm more concerned that my DPs have enough money to live off. It doesnt change my relationship with DB.

I doubt your MIL expected that money back..... as others have said she could have given him less that amount if she really felt strongly about it.

Money is the root of all evil...don't let it affect the relationship otherwise it will seem like you're grabby...if not it would be a non issue.

I agree.

Where did you think that the BIL got the money from to start his business all of a sudden??

Just a few pages in but I too wondered what the amount at stake here is.

Viques mentions it's 2/3 of the the estate. So that implies a significant amount of money left.

Personally yes take legal advice but.. I guess you don't have a leg to stand on. It's your word against his. It's not part of the estate.
Why didn't she help your dh likely the other two..

Inheritance is a bonus... If there was nothing left at all due to this fair enough, have a shot at getting some money but if your going to get several thousand...

I know that my parents lent my brother a sizeable sum about 15 years ago. They and he told me. He has been paying it back in small/affordable repayments since. It is written into their will that the balance of the loan will be deducted from his share of our inheritance.

I don't actually think there will be much to inherit, they live in a different country and care costs will probably gobble it all up, but that's fine.

People say that money is route of all evil but they don't expect bill to pay money back!! 9

Fwiw.I think it's imperative for anyone with dc to do a will and sort out their affairs esp if house involved.

However... Wetheral you receive anything from me that estate.. Is another matter!!

If the cash had been used to buy shares in Bill's company, rather than being a loan to BiL, the investment would be valued at market value on Mill's death as part of the estate. BiL would either have to buy out his brothers or they may end up with 1/3 of her shares each. A share valuation gets even more exciting, as the value depends upon whether It's a minority shareholding and who owns the other shares amongst other things. This could make things even more complicated than the loan/gift issue.

My parents gave my sister over 10k (I can't remember exactly how much, maybe 15k) towards a house. My other sister and I didn't. I'd never even consider asking this to be taken into account. I've never received financial help but have received a lot of emotional support since I'm a single parent.
I also don't understand this feeling people have like they've "lost out" on money in situations like OPs. You haven't because it was never yours anyway. And ops husband is still getting a decent inheritance so I don't understand the whining. Their mums private financial arrangements were between her and them.

BIL says it was a loan that he was intending to pay back at some point

If he has said that, then the money still belonged to MIL and should absolutely be taken into account when dividing assets.

The relationship is already damaged. In our case, MIL gave SIL £80K to help her buy her first home. This was open although her other 2 DC was upset with her decision and was was openly vocal against it. She hasn't changed her will to account for this and my BIL is very hurt at this overt favourtism (DH, being the eldest is plain resigned to it). The result is that the 2 brothers share a bond against their mother and against their favoured younger sibling. Family relations are civil but the underlying resentment shadows every family event which are inevitably rather tense. (There is no generosity of spirit towards each other and it all seems rather artificial and forced)

I would try to get it into writing by emailing him something non-contentious (a question about what he suggests you do about the inheritance tax due on it?) referencing the '£X MIL loaned to you in 2015' to elicit a response which doesn't deny it was a loan.

@irmafaylear

Does your dsis want to be equal, or perhaps she doesn't. I would be urging her to think... Does she love her dd, when she dies if this loan comes out.. How does she think her dd will feel? If millions acre at stake does 50 grand matter? If 100 is at steak.. It matters more.. Urge her to sort it if you care for your niece urge her to sort it out.

Shame when loved parents cock things up on death due to stupidity

Then why didn't Mil put it on writing, mention it to people! You have to rely on his honor. At the time it was given it was her money herself choice.

Xenia said it.

There are rules around estates.

Plenty of people said it before Xenia. She's not the fucking Messiah.

IF MiL owned shares in BiL' s business or lent the money directly to the company rather than via BiL, it should already be documented. However, a loan to BiL in person which then magically helped him set up his business relies on him telling his brothers (which he already has) that it was a loan.

OP, I'm afraid I can't really decide whether I think your BIL is obliged to forfeit some or all of his share or not. What I can't get my head around is why you say that your opinion of him will be altered whatever the outcome. So even if he willingly gives up god share? Why? There's nothing inherently wrong with accepting a loan - or even a gift - from a parent who willingly gives it, as long as all is above board, whether you asked or they offered. It's not your BIL's fault that your DH didn't know about the money or ask for assistance. Your MIL's money and will were her responsibility, not your BIL's.

In our case, MIL gave SIL £80K to help her buy her first home. This was open although her other 2 DC was upset with her decision and was was openly vocal against it. She hasn't changed her will to account for this and my BIL is very hurt at this overt favourtism (DH, being the eldest is plain resigned to it).

Why does helping her child mean she is favouring her? And what business was it of the others? Do either of them need £80k to help them buy a house and if so have they asked for it?

Those of you talking about helping one child in need are missing something here: This wasn’t about helping BIL out of a desperate financial situation. If that was the case, we wouldn’t mind at all. But this was about funding him to start a business. And it was hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Well he's acknowledged the loan, so there you go.