To not let DS go to theme park

[fleaflyflo]

Need some perspective on this please...

DS (12) due to go to a large 'attraction' tomorrow with a group of 6 friends for a 13th birthday treat. I was always under the impression that both parents were going in with them, however With less than 12 hours before they set off it appears that one parent is staying at home and whilst the other (flaky) parent will drive them, is not actually going in.

I am furious that
A) they didn't run it passed us
B) they would even consider leaving other people's children alone.

One of the mums's has already said her DS won't be going but DH thinks i am totally overacting.

For perspective we all live in a small rural village and just going into the local town independently is a big deal, let alone a huge theme park.

I don’t think it’s about whether children are resilient or not. I don’t recall anyone suggesting that a parent takes them around the park, just that there is an adult onsite just as there would be on a school trip. 12/13 year olds are Year 8, and I don’t personally think that leaving a bunch of year 8 children in a theme park with no adult I’m the vicinity is very responsible behaviour. Children that age are not all particularly responsible or grown up, the behaviour of other groups isn’t always particularly lovely and they can decide they don’t like rides and feel uncomfortable, they can hurt themselves, they can have their wallets stolen and I just think it’s sensible to have an adult they can contact or find immediately. Year 9 I would be a bit happier with an adult within a 20 minute drive - say doing a bit of shopping and year 10 I would be ok with them getting themselves there and back and being totally independent. It’s not a lack of resilience, it’s just making sure that they have freedom within sensible parameters and I don’t think year 8 children with no adult on site is the right thing to do and I wouldn’t, and haven’t let my kids go to theme parks, in that situation when they were that age.

I agree with crunchy. If you've built your child up to this: putting their dirty clothes in the washing basket; having a mobile at yr 6 in preparation for secondary; having a 1/2 day or day at home on their own :then going to a theme park, even if the worst would happen : lost bag, lost mobile, it would be easily dealt with : Ds1 would use one of his friends mobiles to call me and I would come and meet him = hardly a saga.

A lot of this thread is mollycoddling parents, who don't know how to/don't want to subtly train their children, over the years, to look after themselves.

I wonder? Is it that these mothers cant bare the thought that they themselves as mothers aren't that intrinsic to their PFB's anymore?

I honestly believe that for some, this is genuinely the issue.

For others, there are different issues. But for some, it's simply not healthy.

"Children that age are not all particularly responsible or grown up, the behaviour of other groups isn’t always particularly lovely and they can decide they don’t like rides and feel uncomfortable, they can hurt themselves, they can have their wallets stolen and I just think it’s sensible to have an adult they can contact or find immediately."

I completely disagree. Most of the Year 8 boys I knew were completely mature for their age and not anxious and incompetent as this poster suggested.

Based purely on the 20 or so year 8 boys I knew, admittedly.

A lot of this thread is mollycoddling parents, who don't know how to/don't want to subtly train their children, over the years, to look after themselves.

It's exactly not that, the opposite infact. Please RTFT, and you'll see that your comment is uncalled for and untrue.

It's a shame as there are MN making good points on either side without exagorating. As an aside, teaching children to debate something respecting others POV & to listen, is a huge life skill too.

I agree. What can go wrong?

• lost mobile - use friends mobile to call
• lost spending money, just go on rides and forgo spending money or borrow some money from friend
• lost bag or coat - talk to park staff, there will be lost property
• getting hassled by other kids or adult - tell park staff. Especially if it was an adult the staff will take this VERY seriously

This is not a child going on their own. Literally the only thing that could really go wrong that is an issue, is if they are the kind of kid that would stand up on a ride, jump in the water at a log flume, etc. This is why schools will not take kids this badly behaved. If your kid would do this I would never let them go on any ride alone. But at 12 this behaviour for an NT kid is pretty extreme, so as long as you know your kid is sensible, no big deal.

There is a lot of evidence that points to kids being more independent and self sufficient as adults if their parents are more hands on and gradual in their approach to freedom in the teenage years.

I don’t know why parents who allow their kids the most freedom feel the need here to put other parents down? What’s the issue?

Surely it’s actually good to think these things through, think of what is best.

They are now on their way home, all exhausted soaked and happy; they had a great time.

That's one more box ticked for both him and me on his road to independence.

Another challenge will soon arise where I have to consult my non-existent teenage user manual and to the best of my ability I will work out the right way to parent.

There is a lot of evidence that points to kids being more independent and self sufficient as adults if their parents are more hands on and gradual in their approach to freedom in the teenage years.

I don’t know why parents who allow their kids the most freedom feel the need here to put other parents down? What’s the issue?

Limited excursions without parental supervision at year 8 age, really isn’t “the most freedom”.

I’m quite taken aback by some of the mollycoddling attitudes on this thread.

I can remember getting into a silent diplomatic standoff with another mother when DC2 was 11 because I wouldn’t allow a whole day of on-road cycling in a very large city for the two 11yos unsupervised (my D.C. had zero road cycling experience anyway).

I never met this other “Year 8s must be surveilled”, “going into the local town independently is a big deal for twelve year olds” faction. I am quite taken aback.

Let’s hope I don’t meet them when DC3 hits that stage.

Yes kids need introduced to independence gradually in stages. So at what age do you let them go around a theme park unsupervised with friends? Someone on the thread suggested 15. That would mean if they move away from home at 18, say to go to Uni, it is a short time scale to build up independence in. And kids like this do struggle at 18 when they do suddenly have to manage for themselves.

@Wintertime4
posted a sensible response, especially to extremes on here

@fleaflyflosays Another challenge will soon arise where I have to consult my non-existent teenage user manual and to the best of my ability I will work out the right way to parent

That is OP being polite to those that have TOLD her what is right even though 50% disagree with them & were behind her reasonable response. She wanted to hear pp views and she did. It was split, that supported her 'ach I'm not entirely comfortable re my 12 yo and these specific circumstances'.
She was right to. She has a view, it's her child.

Different parents have different views, and it's been great to hear them, this range of views over ( 1-2 year ) difference between 12-14 yo, although it has been sad to read a few somewhat bullying posts. I'd worry most about those pp.

My DS, y8, has just spent most of the day in our local town. It is not a posh town, quite a few rough areas/characters. He went to the mall with his mates, to the arcades, saw a movie. It was fine.

It is important for them at this age to have a bit of independence.

Saying that, I am from a culture where from age 13 kids are pretty much treated as adults and allowed to make their own decisions.

They need to be out in the real world, to learn to understand society and life (and the universe and everything )

I have a friend who did not allow her 15 year old DS to Thorpe Park, as "it is full of tattooed people" I do not want to be that parent!

OP I'm glad they had fun.None of us have the manual.
My DC ( or at least 2 out of 3) are not risk takers and so generally indicate if they are not happy to take the next step.This is often covert eg 'I've got an essay' , words NEVER heard when something they want to do is on offer! Generally if they are happy being left somewhere or making their own way or whatever I can feel at ease. If they are uneasy then I think twice.
Another view that I take into consideration is what I was doing at their age. Again I was not a risk taker and lived a well protected suburban existance rather similar to my own DC. I was perfectly happy on public transport from about 10, crossing London with my younger sister or meeting my Dad or similar. I knew who to ask for help and how to read timetables and carried a 2p for the phone in case of emergency. I pondered on this when considering whether DS should go to the theme park and asked him frankly whether he was happy to.
If you feel uneasy about something my advice is to scrutinise your motives. If you genuinely think DC aren't ready then follow your instinct even if your child is the only one to miss out but if your worries are to do with relinquishing control even though DC are ready for the next step then consider letting them having some control over their lives.

Pretty sure by 12 I was getting the train with a bunch of friends to Blackpool Pleasure Beach (30 minute train ride). What is it you are worried about exactly? It's a theme park with gates and security guards and families

Well done, OP! I'm glad your DS and his pals had such a great time.

The op says

"That's one more box ticked for him and me on his road to independence"

I'm sorry but how has this trip taught the OP's DS about independence? They were taken into the park by an adult and told that said adult would be on hand to deal with any issue that may arise. The only independence was actually walking between rides.

I feel very sorry for the child who was not allowed to go, despite being escorted by an adult and that adult remaining on site. Goodness, how much supervision did that parent expect, is her DS still on reins?

It's tough on us as parents when our children need us less and I think more often than not it is the parents who need to keep the attachment for their own reasons. I think we owe it to them to allow them their time to grow and develop.

It's hard to imagine how some of these DC's will ever gain confidence and independence.

Thanks @whereismymum you posted a pretty reasoned response yourself.

Reading through the posts, it’s interesting that the attacking ones putting other parents down were from the leave them there on their own camp. Accusing parents who would not as mollycoddling, overbearing mums who had a problem and could not let go.

The posts from parents who agreed with OP were very moderate and less intense. Just an observation.

I think the difference was that I built up independence gradually over the years. I got Ds1 a phone in year 6, as many other parents did, and he walked to school, as recommended by the school and supported and encouraged by the school, in preparation for secondary. He was left at home for a few minutes, then a short period, then a morning, then he was happy being at home alone in a inset day. He wanted that and was totally comfortable.

I too, like a pp, fail to see how OP's reaction to this has done anything at all to encourage her ds's 'independence'? I just don't understand how this is a step forward.

And I resent other posters saying that those who didn't want their children to go were polite and reasoned.
But that those who were happy for their children to go were rude and unreasonable.

In a number of my posts I actually asked for reasons as to why these parents didn't want their child to go. What reasons?

And then eventually, I admit, I just said that I thought a lot of it was just ..... well I didn't know how to explain it..... other just over-anxious mollycoddling.
And I still stand by that. Is it those words that you find offensive? Or the sentiment behind it?

Because I still think those are the best words to describe it.

Other posters asked too. What were they afraid of. Exactly?

One poster asked: what is the absolute worst that could happen: a lost bag/phone etc and an suggestion was offered as to how to deal with all those eventualities.

Is that not polite and reasoned? I thought that posters post was well written.

But I have yet to see a reasoned response as to what the fears were, that has explained it, in a way that I can understand.

And yes, I have read all the posts I think. Just not one that explains it clearly to me.

Oblomov Ds1 a phone in year 6, as many other parents did, and he walked to school, as recommended by the school and supported and encouraged by the school, in preparation for secondary. He was left at home for a few minutes, then a short period, then a morning, then he was happy being at home alone in a inset day. He wanted that and was totally comfortable.

Have I given you any indication that DS doesn't already do these things? You are making a lot of assumptions.

To my original post:I was mostly concerned that we weren't given any heads up that no 'familiar' adult would be around in a very large unfamiliar theme park (not to supervise but just be there). Not an unreasonable concern in my book.

Had I been told earlier I may have felt differently but still maintain that if I was in charge of a group of 12/13 year olds I would still sit somewhere on site. You may think that "mollycoddling", at this age I don't.

Have I given you any indication that DS doesn't already do these things? You are making a lot of assumptions.

No I'm not. I never said you hadn't!

Then we have a difference of opinion.
Because yes, I do think it's mollycoddling.

We clearly have a difference of opinion.

Totally in agreement with Oblomov

Still no "real" reasons given as to why the group were not considered trustworthy to be left at theme park other than over-anxious parents.

I too resented the way the group saying "let him go" we're considered rude by one poster.

Fleafly you actually stated in your original post that you had believed both parents were going to be present. You then said that you considered your DC going into town independently "a big deal"

I work in education, and I can honestly say hand on heart, that we are seeing more and more children with anxiety than ever before and this more often than not is instigated by over-anxious parenting.

I work in education, and I can honestly say hand on heart, that we are seeing more and more children with anxiety than ever before and this more often than not is instigated by over-anxious parenting

Me too, I agree totally with this. We take kids out and basically give them free rein to run around and have fun....every single time a fairly large number of them will sit and twiddle their thumbs, and then ask what to do! They simply have no idea how to amuse themselves, socialise, play games, because at home every single thing they do is organized by parents or involves looking at a screen. Its really sad, and getting worse every year.

We have a play scheme here that brings a load of crap interesting objects - downnpipes gittering old pram lumps of wood tyres sheets

The kids use their imagination to build create, work together, collaborate, and have fun. It's a great scheme but many parents object to their kids getting dirty!!!

We need more not less of these things

I can imagine that unsettling a few parents Greentulips.

The problem is that parents are complaining more and more about kids using screens yet they won't allow them any freedom to do anything else.

A little boy I know in year 5 told me only yesterday that he is going to pony camp in the summer. I told him it was great fun and that the children loved sleeping in the tents. He pulled a face and said that he was only going to the day camp as his mother didn't feel he was ready for big camp.

He is one of the most confident outgoing kids you could meet. It's just bizarre that his mother will let him ride and jump fences yet he isn't allowed to camp. Not because he isn't ready, but because SHE isn't ready.

It's no different to a school trip to a theme park, they have mobiles should anything happen and the parents probably don't want to pay £40 odd pounds or more to sit and have a coffee for eight hours... If you are that bothered you could go